2014 Indian Wells Masters Final: Federer v. Djokovic

Who do you pick?


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Moxie

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Bottom-line: he might has been able to serve (somewhat) less well if he'd been more effectively aggressive, or he might not have needed aggression so much if he's had a stellar serving day. The combination of really poor serving, and lack of aggression cost him. And look how close he got!
 

herios

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I decided this week, that Is a whole lot better for my health to watch Nole's matches ...recorded.
Then I can calmly see what went wrong and what was good.
Yesterday I watched nothing, just checked the result. When he is unable to serve out a match, you may have a heart attack for God's sake.
Today I watched cursing set 1, then set 2 and 3 on and off, but I went to have dinner when he was broken yet again when serving for the match...
I am glad I did. At least I enjoyed eating, then when I came back and checked the result: Surprise, he actually won. :huh:
Just watched the end... I feel sorry for Roger's fans too, what a terrible TB for him, anti-vintage.
 

nehmeth

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herios said:
I decided this week, that Is a whole lot better for my health to watch Nole's matches ...recorded.
Then I can calmly see what went wrong and what was good.
Yesterday I watched nothing, just checked the result. When he is unable to serve out a match, you may have a heart attack for God's sake.
Today I watched cursing set 1, then set 2 and 3 on and off, but I went to have dinner when he was broken yet again when serving for the match...
I am glad I did. At least I enjoyed eating, then when I came back and checked the result: Surprise, he actually won. :huh:
Just watched the end... I feel sorry for Roger's fans too, what a terrible TB for him, anti-vintage.

Feeling your pain herios. If he lost today, the rest of his year would have been watched from my DVR. Too darn nerve wracking.
 

Front242

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Yeah it was a terrible letdown in the TB, herios. I just wish he'd played a better TB and if you're gonna lose at least do it with some dignity. After playing well to get the break back the TB was a real size nine steel toecapped kick in the nuts.
 

DarthFed

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Moxie629 said:
Bottom-line: he might has been able to serve (somewhat) less well if he'd been more effectively aggressive, or he might not have needed aggression so much if he's had a stellar serving day. The combination of really poor serving, and lack of aggression cost him. And look how close he got!

Close doesn't count in this game. If he can't beat a Nole playing like this he has a long ways to go before being a real contender again.
 

Front242

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^ That's the thing....close really means absolutely nothing. Nadal was playing very badly too in Rio and yet still Andujar didn't beat him. Players need to take advantage of days when their opponents form is off as next time they play it may be a completely different match and the opponent who still won playing poorly may win comfortably. Bad for confidence and bad naturally that you failed to capitalize when they were off their game.

Plus, letting a player win ugly is a huge confidence boost for them and Roger probably gave Novak a huge boost now for the rest of the season.
 

Moxie

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Front242 said:
^ That's the thing....close really means absolutely nothing. Nadal was playing very badly too in Rio and yet still Andujar didn't beat him. Players need to take advantage of days when their opponents form is off as next time they play it may be a completely different match and the opponent who still won playing poorly may win comfortably. Bad for confidence and bad naturally that you failed to capitalize when they were off their game.

Plus, letting a player win ugly is a huge confidence boost for them and Roger probably gave Novak a huge boost now for the rest of the season.

Well, Front you were the guy whose consolation prize was going to the the confidence boost for Novak. Be careful what you wish for, I guess. Or, anyway, let's see if it pays off in the way you hope. :cool:

But Roger had his foot on Nole's neck in the first, and totally let his foot off the gas as soon as the second started. That's just tactical error…not being old or playing crap.
 

nehmeth

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Moxie629 said:
But Roger had his foot on Nole's neck in the first, and totally let his foot off the gas as soon as the second started. That's just tactical error…not being old or playing crap.

Novak wasn't hitting with depth or zip on (most) of his shots in the first set. He began to do that much better in the 2nd set. I wouldn't say Fed "totally" let his foot off the gas - Fed's level did drop, but the other guy began to hit with greater depth of shot and variety.
 

Front242

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Grandad was never gonna out rally his grandson from set 2 onwards and once Fed's serve % dropped and he was missing first serves he ended up rallying far more than set 1. I hope he practices his serve a lot as it's the difference between winning and losing.
 

Moxie

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nehmeth said:
Moxie629 said:
But Roger had his foot on Nole's neck in the first, and totally let his foot off the gas as soon as the second started. That's just tactical error…not being old or playing crap.

Novak wasn't hitting with depth or zip on (most) of his shots in the first set. He began to do that much better in the 2nd set. I wouldn't say Fed "totally" let his foot off the gas - Fed's level did drop, but the other guy began to hit with greater depth of shot and variety.

I totally agree that Sleepyhead woke up after Set #1 and played much better, but Pops had a game plan in set #1 that he abandoned, and let Nole not just play better, but control the set, by-and-large. It took him until 4-3 to break, but he was in mostly all of Fed's service games at that point, in the 2nd. It was a matter of time. I'm not saying that Fed would necessarily have won it if he'd kept to his game plan, but he'd have played on his terms. Playing on Nole's terms was not likely to be a winning strategy. To Novak's credit, when he woke up, he rose to his full strength. He served really well, and was brave when he most needed to be. He fully deserved the win.
 

nehmeth

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Front242 said:
Grandad was never gonna out rally his grandson from set 2 onwards and once Fed's serve % dropped and he was missing first serves he ended up rallying far more than set 1. I hope he practices his serve a lot as it's the difference between winning and losing.

I wonder how much time Isner practices his serve and then everything else? Makes you wonder.

Agreed Fed won't out rally Novak. First set he was playing from inside the baseline something like 39% of the time. Second set it dropped to something like 27%. Part of that was his serve, part of it was Novak started dropping his groundies well beyond the service line.

I never thought Novak would win. Roger definitely went awol when it mattered. Some brilliant stuff from both guys interspersing a lot of ugly. :(
 

Front242

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Yeah definitely patches of very high level stuff from both but all the chunks of gunk rose to the surface of the bucket of slop, drowning out most of the good in the end. Dunno about Isner but I read Karlovic places a towel down the T and just aims for it serve after serve.
 

Moxie

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nehmeth said:
I never thought Novak would win. Roger definitely went awol when it mattered. Some brilliant stuff from both guys interspersing a lot of ugly. :(

OK, it was no classic, but it was a cliff-hanger until the last 15 minutes. It was far from the ugliest match they've even played against each other. (RG '12 SF comes to mind.) I suppose you're right about brilliance and plonk. Anyway, I found it entertaining. I think it lived up to it's billing well-enough.
 

nehmeth

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Front242 said:
Yeah definitely patches of very high level stuff from both but all the chunks of gunk rose to the surface of the bucket of slop, drowning out most of the good in the end. Dunno about Isner but I read Karlovic places a towel down the T and just aims for it serve after serve.

Nice description of the match... I'm seeing pigs again. Seems difficult for both of them to play well at the same time.

Isner was SO clutch in his tiebreak Saturday - not just his serve, but he was going for his shots too. I was impressed.
 

herios

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nehmeth said:
Front242 said:
Yeah definitely patches of very high level stuff from both but all the chunks of gunk rose to the surface of the bucket of slop, drowning out most of the good in the end. Dunno about Isner but I read Karlovic places a towel down the T and just aims for it serve after serve.

Nice description of the match... I'm seeing pigs again. Seems difficult for both of them to play well at the same time.

Isner was SO clutch in his tiebreak Saturday - not just his serve, but he was going for his shots too. I was impressed.

I have not seen Isner - Nole, but I did Gulbis - Isner and John was just murdering those FH and could keep up many times also on the BH which is an improvement for him.
While US guys are dismal and are non competitive today in tennis, John is the exception, and he just earned a top 10 ranking again, after 2 years, with his IW performance.
 

TsarMatt

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Watched the final during a university class. Great stuff! Sad to see Federer lose, but man, he has exceeded my expectations already this year.

Good stuff overall.
 

pavlik89

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[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmF_ghVKQH4[/video]
 

masterclass

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It was an interesting match, with a good amount of drama, if not good play from both at the same time. Overall, Federer didn't play throughout the match as well as he did against Dolgopolov, especially on serve, but he wasn't poor either. Djokovic played better than he did the whole tournament, but still had lapses, but shorter in scope.

The result? A very even match. It could have gone either way in the end. Even stats were very even, almost even # of games won/lost, exact same winners/unforced error ratio, with Federer's amounts predictably higher, almost even # of total points won, Djokovic 99 points, 98 for Federer, etc.

Federer played well the first set, aggressively, charging the net at just the right times, while Djokovic looked nervous early and got broken, which was enough for Federer to take the set, as he continued to serve well at crucial times. He was over 70% won on both 1st and 2nd serves.

Federer seemed to let off the aggression pedal in the second, I don't why, and stayed back and rallied. His 1st serve pct. also declined significantly. I think this psychologically let Djokovic back into the match, and Djokovic got stronger, more consistent and confident, while Federer looked weaker and more tired as rallies and points played longer. Djokovic broke Federer once and that was enough for the second.

Djokovic continued to look strong at the start of the third set, painting lines on both defensive and offensive shots like they had magnetic attraction to the ball, while Federer still seemed lost or tired or something, giving an early break to Djokovic, and it looked like that would be enough for Djokovic, until he tried to serve out the match. Then Federer, with his back against the wall, played some great attacking tennis, 3 points in succession for love-40, which seemed to startle Djokovic out of his zone of good play, and Federer broke him at 15 to even the match at 5-5.

Federer once again regained confidence serving to love in his next game for a 6-5 lead, but then looked disinterested on the Djokovic serve and seemed content to have it decided in the tiebreak. Not sure I agreed with that way of thinking, even at that moment, not after the fact. I think Federer was on a roll and should have gone all out as in the 4-5 game to break Djokovic. But he didn't. Perhaps the effort to break previously sapped him a bit, and he was saving himself energy.

Then the tiebreak was a poor effort from Federer. Djokovic didn't need to do much but play steady, as Federer had 3 or 4 unforced errors on his serve. One certainly can't expect to win a tiebreak like that.

Regardless, Djokovic did up his game in general from the previous matches in the tournament, still had some lapses here and there, but it did not deter him, and he won it in the end. Federer's play was up and down, brilliant at times, and then seemingly on cruise control at others. He did very well to break Djokovic at the end of the third, but didn't take advantage of that, and played a poor tiebreaker, and due to that did not deserve the victory. With his former career #1 tiebreaker record .649 pct, now #2 just behind Isner .650, who has played about 1/2 the tiebreakers Federer has, one would think he should have done better.

Congratulations to Nole, his fans, and his team. He should play with more confidence after this, and looks good going to Miami. One continued concern is his recent inability to serve out matches. He was a bit fortunate that it didn't cost him this tournament.

Commiserations to Roger and his supporters. I don't think this loss hurts him a lot. He played a good tournament, just missed, so his level looks good going into his next training block before his clay season starts in Madrid. He said he had not expected to be at his best level till after the next training block so to have these good results prior to that was a bit of a surprise to him.

On to Miami!

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

the AntiPusher

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DarthFed said:
Moxie629 said:
Bottom-line: he might has been able to serve (somewhat) less well if he'd been more effectively aggressive, or he might not have needed aggression so much if he's had a stellar serving day. The combination of really poor serving, and lack of aggression cost him. And look how close he got!

Close doesn't count in this game. If he can't beat a Nole playing like this he has a long ways to go before being a real contender again.

Agreed.. Roger is playing a lot better but I agree close doesnt count