2014 Davis Cup

[Kieran]

Regardless, nobody is discrediting Federer in this thread...not even Kieran!

I never discredit him, buddy, I'm just sorely misunderstood...

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Regardless, nobody is discrediting Federer in this thread...not even Kieran!

I never discredit him, buddy, I'm just sorely misunderstood...

Maybe they aren't 'into you' Kieran...uzzled

I get you though......

 

[Kieran]

Regardless, nobody is discrediting Federer in this thread...not even Kieran!

I never discredit him, buddy, I'm just sorely misunderstood...

Maybe they aren't 'into you' Kieran...uzzled

I get you though......

That's two of us get me - it's enough!

 

[DarthFed]

Regardless, nobody is discrediting Federer in this thread...not even Kieran!

I never discredit him, buddy, I'm just sorely misunderstood...

Someone is priming themselves up for more Francis Underwood :clap

 

[Kieran]

Regardless, nobody is discrediting Federer in this thread...not even Kieran!

I never discredit him, buddy, I'm just sorely misunderstood...

Someone is priming themselves up for more Francis Underwood :clap

Waiting...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Just because you are possibly an up and coming player, you cannot escape military duties.
Dominic Thiem reports to military duty. I suppose he must not be a rich kid. His personal career earnings is only about 800,000 dollars, not to worry about his parent's income.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

And please, GSM, let's not have a new myth regarding Federer, that he's had back injuries since 2003, because you know that this will become the new perceived truth.

This is neither new nor myth. I have already provided evidence in terms of the Telegraph article about
the match that he almost lost due to back injury in 2003 Wimby and have provided evidence in terms
of he being relieved of the obligation to serve in military in view of his long-standing back problems as per
the wikidpedia page. May be you think Wikipedia is in the business of spreading myths.

Having said that, it is not the case that he was affected by it continuously throughout his career.
But, it is a regularly reoccurring issue for him.

It appears new to you as you did not see much coverage about Fed's back over the years.
That is because some people whine less about their injuries and some people whine more
and also probably because you did not pay attention to news about Fed back in those days.

Finally, no, I am not asking you or anyone else to regard Fed with higher respect in view of this. I myself would not do so personally. As we all know and accept, playing with niggling injuries is part of an Athlete's life.

 

[Kieran]

Gimme a break. We hear plenty about Federer and his injuries. The main point about this is, he had minor back problems that didn't affect him winning majors (let alone playing in them) and most of the last twelve years he's been magnificently healthy. Isolated twinges aren't chronic - and you know well that this is how this narrative could develop.

The guy has had a remarkable run of great health, missing no majors and playing a huge schedule every season. Let's not make him out to be a martyr to his back...

 

[Federberg]

And please, GSM, let's not have a new myth regarding Federer, that he's had back injuries since 2003, because you know that this will become the new perceived truth.

This is neither new nor myth. I have already provided evidence in terms of the Telegraph article about
the match that he almost lost due to back injury in 2003 Wimby and have provided evidence in terms
of he being relieved of the obligation to serve in military in view of his long-standing back problems as per
the wikidpedia page. May be you think Wikipedia is in the business of spreading myths.

Having said that, it is not the case that he was affected by it continuously throughout his career.
But, it is a regularly reoccurring issue for him.

It appears new to you as you did not see much coverage about Fed's back over the years.
That is because some people whine less about their injuries and some people whine more
and also probably because you did not pay attention to news about Fed back in those days.

Finally, no, I am not asking you or anyone else to regard Fed with higher respect in view of this. I myself would not do so personally. As we all know and accept, playing with niggling injuries is part of an Athlete's life.

Federer injuries must be new. I've never seen so many pages about it. Guess he's not a whiner! :lolz:

 

[mrzz]

... the black and white nature of this world is also recognized in other threads:

So you don't like black AND white? You are two times a racist!

 

[GameSetAndMath]

in Fed's case, though, they're getting a good deal (which is why the commission that checks if you're fit for service might not have been inclined to look too close at that junior wimby champ) : if a swiss citizen is not serving in the army, he has to pay a sort of compensational tax in relation to his income - about half a million Swiss Franken annually for the fedster...

Sure, the Swiss Army is getting nice revenue from Fed by way of compensation.

However, it is difficult to imagine that they had a premonition that Fed would become a multimillionaire, pay a lot of money by way of compensation and so they decided to let him go, especially considering that all of this happened before he even won his first GS.

 

[brokenshoelace]

And please, GSM, let's not have a new myth regarding Federer, that he's had back injuries since 2003, because you know that this will become the new perceived truth.

This is neither new nor myth. I have already provided evidence in terms of the Telegraph article about
the match that he almost lost due to back injury in 2003 Wimby and have provided evidence in terms
of he being relieved of the obligation to serve in military in view of his long-standing back problems as per
the wikidpedia page. May be you think Wikipedia is in the business of spreading myths.

Having said that, it is not the case that he was affected by it continuously throughout his career.
But, it is a regularly reoccurring issue for him.

It appears new to you as you did not see much coverage about Fed's back over the years.
That is because some people whine less about their injuries and some people whine more
and also probably because you did not pay attention to news about Fed back in those days.

Finally, no, I am not asking you or anyone else to regard Fed with higher respect in view of this. I myself would not do so personally. As we all know and accept, playing with niggling injuries is part of an Athlete's life.

Federer injuries must be new. I've never seen so many pages about it. Guess he's not a whiner! :lolz:

They also must be fairly minor, since he's barely missed a match, let alone a tournament, in his entire career. There's not much to whine about.

 

[Kieran]

in Fed's case, though, they're getting a good deal (which is why the commission that checks if you're fit for service might not have been inclined to look too close at that junior wimby champ) : if a swiss citizen is not serving in the army, he has to pay a sort of compensational tax in relation to his income - about half a million Swiss Franken annually for the fedster...

Sure, the Swiss Army is getting nice revenue from Fed by way of compensation.

However, it is difficult to imagine that they had a premonition that Fed would become a multimillionaire, pay a lot of money by way of compensation and so they decided to let him go, especially considering that all of this happened before he even won his first GS.

He was already a millionaire, in other words.

Look, I doubt you seriously believe Federer was so badly injured he couldn't sit and do a desk job. He was still, at the time, one of Switzerlands greatest sportsmen and it would have been nothing to him or them that he skipped this. In fact, it would have been recognised as advantageous to both of them.

He didn't get off it because he was tortured with back problems. He got off it the way players get out of playing MS events they don't want to play, he provided a sick note. He's never missed a single slam! His health is another aspect of his career that's broken records...

 

[Johnsteinbeck]

Just because you are possibly an up and coming player, you cannot escape military duties.
Dominic Thiem reports to military duty. I suppose he must not be a rich kid. His personal career earnings is only about 800,000 dollars, not to worry about his parent's income.

alright, why not make the davis cup thread about military service requirements:

- whether or not you're able to do a desk job is irrelevant (at least in AUT, GER, SUI). if you're not fit for the whole deal (running, heavy loads and all that), you're not fit for service and have to/get to skip.
- up and coming, future millionaire or not: nowadays, people ususally find a way out if they really don't want to serve. the fact th Federer was already a national sports celebrity by that time surely worked both ways: on the one hand, the army could potentially be responsible for stalling his career trajectory, and wouldn't want bad press for that. on the other hand, accepting that he's not fit while he's clearly rather capable of playing sports at a world-class level also doesn't exactly enhance their credibility (and swiss anti-military-duty-activists actually used Fed as an involuntary poster boy for their campaigns).

- as far as Thiem is concerned: he surely could've gotten out if he'd wanted to (he has a number of physical issues that would do the job). however, the army is the prime provider of secure positions for athletes in austria. he'll have to go through basic training for a couple of weeks, with a lot of privileges*. after that, he'll probably join the army on a time contract basis, which means that while touring the world playing tournaments, he'll sometimes wear a little austrian army badge and once in a while, he'll smile for an image campaign photo.
if he gets hurt or just starts sucking, the army will have a fallback job for him. the vast majority of austrian skiers or track and field athletes, and even some table tennis players, are in that system.

* funny how the article you link insists that there was "no special treatment" when Thiem started his service after the Paris 1000 - it's just that everyone else starts their service at the begin of a quarter, which would've been Oct. 1st...


oh... and: Urquhart > Underwood

 

[Kieran]

 

[GameSetAndMath]

in Fed's case, though, they're getting a good deal (which is why the commission that checks if you're fit for service might not have been inclined to look too close at that junior wimby champ) : if a swiss citizen is not serving in the army, he has to pay a sort of compensational tax in relation to his income - about half a million Swiss Franken annually for the fedster...

Johnsteinbeck, since you seem to know so much about mandatory military service in European countries, I have a quick question for you.

I would assume that if a young male is found fit to serve in the military and chooses not to serve they would be expected to pay monetary compensation in view of their dereliction of duty. However, if a person is deemed unfit to serve in the military, it is obviously not the person's fault. The person never said he is not interested in serving in the military and it is the military that said the person is unfit and so cannot serve. So, it is logical to assume that the said person who was deemed unfit would not be required to pay any compensation.

In Fed's case, Wikipedia article clearly states he was deemed unfit to serve by the military.
In that case, I would assume that Fed does not have to pay any compensation as it is not his fault.
Fed might be donating some of his huge fortune to Swiss Army once in a while, but I guess
he does not have to do so if he chooses not to do so.

Does not this observation negate the conspiracy theory of Swiss-Army trying to gain monetary advantage by letting him go, even assuming that they are capable of predicting that Fed would become a superstar with a portfolio worth several hundred million dollars?

 

[Johnsteinbeck]

first off, to your questions, just to be clear: no, the observation does not negate the conspiracy theory (as i will show below), but i don't actually buy into that conspiracy either. i didn't want to seriously imply that the army purposely chose the money over his service. it was just a funny sidenote, that they were getting a good deal out of it.

as for the "observations"/assumptions that lead up to your question:

- The swiss, like us Austrians, have Mandatory service (army or civil service) - there is no choosing whether or not to serve if you're deemed fit for service.
- if you're not fit for military service, you don't have to do civil service either.

- The Swiss Bundesgesetz über die Wehrpflichtersatzabgabe (Federal Law about the mandatory military service compensation fee) clearly states that everyone who has not completed his military or civil service duty has to pay an annual fee, in relation to their income, from age 20 til age 30 (which would be the cut-off age for getting recruited into the service). (so Fed actually stopped paying a while ago, sorry i missed that)

- the reason for the inability to serve is irrelevant.
- there's a bunch of exceptions of course, for handicapped people, folks who didn't complete their service because of a injury etc.

i agree with your train of thought, though, and so do others, as shown by a case that made it to the European Court of Human Rights (full english text!): A swiss man was deemed unfit for service because he is diabetic, even though he wanted to serve. He still has to pay the fee. The ECHR actually decided that his violates his rights, but it's still the law in Switzerland. Now the swiss army is contemplating re-introducing a system they had about thirty years ago, where those who're not fully fit still get to work in office positions (just like Kieran suggested ).


Austria, by the way, does not have a compensation fee system like that. Germany currently has suspended the mandatory military service system altogether.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

On the other hand, poor me had to both PAY AND DO the military service! You guys are lucky !

 

[brokenshoelace]

Wikipedia is being used as a reliable source over topics one clearly has no idea about. Great.

 

[Kieran]

Germany currently has suspended the mandatory military service system altogether.

And the whole of France say, "merci..."