UK Politics Thread

[Kieran]

it's going to be fascinating to see how popular the Green Party is in the local elections in May. I used to live in Golders Green in my teens. Quite a shock to see the video of the take down. I'll admit, the police officer kicking the guy in the head when he was already down was probably a bit over the top. Not that I feel sorry for the guy, but it was unnecessary

Apparently he wouldn’t let go of the knife, but I’m glad the cops treated him the way he deserves to be treated. It was more shocking to me to see him attack the innocent Jewish man..

 

[britbox]

Apparently there are 53,000 crimes in the UK involving knives or sharp instruments per annum.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04304/

 

[Kieran]

The UK government passed a bill making it illegal for anyone currently under 18 to ever smoke cigarettes. Ever.

From the BBC:

Children aged 17 or younger will face a lifelong ban on buying cigarettes, as the Tobacco and Vapes Bill clears Parliament.

I cannot think of anything ever better designed to make young people rebel. But imagine you’re 40 years old and not allowed to smoke, and your sibling is 41 and smoking like a chimney. I’m sure there’s a flaw in the reasoning behind this ban, if I could only find out what it is…

 

[britbox]

They did it in New Zealand but repealed it. It will be back. Also being mooted in Canada and Oz... almost identical. Seems all these new laws are being rolled out in lockstep.

 

[Kieran]

They did it in New Zealand but repealed it. It will be back. Also being mooted in Canada and Oz... almost identical. Seems all these new laws are being rolled out in lockstep.

It’s the most senseless thing, isn’t it? I never smoked but if it was banned like this when I was 18, it would definitely make me curious..

 

[Murat B.]

It’s the most senseless thing, isn’t it? I never smoked but if it was banned like this when I was 18, it would definitely make me curious..

I am confused about something. It says "lifelong" ban. So when you are 50, you go to a shop, they will check your ID and deny you?

 

[Federberg]

This is some next level crazy shit

 

[Federberg]

.. and it's interesting they don't implement the same thing for alcohol which is just as dangerous, if not more so, given the collateral impacts alcohol has with violence..

 

[Murat B.]

.. and it's interesting they don't implement the same thing for alcohol which is just as dangerous, if not more so, given the collateral impacts alcohol has with violence..

I never agreed with the shitty pictures they put on cigarette packs. If something is legal , let them advertise the way they see fit. Otherwise you have to put the pictures of drunk driving victims on the cans of beer and exploding hearts and fat asses on the Big Mac boxes. Fair is Fair.

 

[Federberg]

I never agreed with the shitty pictures they put on cigarette packs. If something is legal , let them advertise the way they see fit. Otherwise you have to put the pictures of drunk driving victims on the cans of beer and exploding hearts and fat asses on the Big Mac boxes. Fair is Fair.

completely agree. The problem is that we have people in power who believe in the nanny state. I'm a free market guy, I think if people do things that are harmful to themselves or others, then they should pay the financial cost. Just price everything correctly and that by itself will force behavioural changes. So for example, smoking.. since they've eliminated passive smoking, what's left is for those who suffer smoking induced ailments to pay for their healthcare relating to that. Same thing with eating bad foods or drinking alcohol. On the same track, I do believe that if companies pollute then they should pay for the clean up. All of these things will force people or companies to act differently to avoid the costs. If they develop technologies that don't pollute then that's a social good in itself. If a pharmaceutical company or health care expert develops cures for smoking or drinking etc, again a social good. Humanity advances. I don't believe any good ever really happens by trying to change behaviour by force. That's not the way

 

[Kieran]

I am confused about something. It says "lifelong" ban. So when you are 50, you go to a shop, they will check your ID and deny you?

Exactly! Even pensioners will eventually have to prove their age. I’m sure it’s just another something stupid leftist thing - because it’s something stupid?

 

[Federberg]

Exactly! Even pensioners will eventually have to prove their age. I’m sure it’s just another something stupid leftist thing - because it’s something stupid?

the problem with lefties is that they never think through how their ideas work in the real world. Those on the centre right aren't necessarily better thinkers, they're just better because they don't believe the State can solve these issues. Freedom and accountability is what works

 

[Murat B.]

the problem with lefties is that they never think through how their ideas work in the real world. Those on the centre right aren't necessarily better thinkers, they're just better because they don't believe the State can solve these issues. Freedom and accountability is what works

Thomas Sowell explains this so well in the A Conflict of Visions. Great book.

 

[britbox]

completely agree. The problem is that we have people in power who believe in the nanny state. I'm a free market guy, I think if people do things that are harmful to themselves or others, then they should pay the financial cost. Just price everything correctly and that by itself will force behavioural changes. So for example, smoking.. since they've eliminated passive smoking, what's left is for those who suffer smoking induced ailments to pay for their healthcare relating to that. Same thing with eating bad foods or drinking alcohol. On the same track, I do believe that if companies pollute then they should pay for the clean up. All of these things will force people or companies to act differently to avoid the costs. If they develop technologies that don't pollute then that's a social good in itself. If a pharmaceutical company or health care expert develops cures for smoking or drinking etc, again a social good. Humanity advances. I don't believe any good ever really happens by trying to change behaviour by force. That's not the way

I partially agree, except getting people to pay for healthcare directly based on habits - indirectly maybe. I think that is built into the cost of cigarettes already. I used to smoke once upon a time and recall looking into it at the time - I think the tax intake was higher than the health costs. If you start charging for healthcare directly, then it could open it up to other things - even some sports - i.e. If you participate in a dangerous sport then do you pay for injuries?

 

[britbox]

the problem with lefties is that they never think through how their ideas work in the real world. Those on the centre right aren't necessarily better thinkers, they're just better because they don't believe the State can solve these issues. Freedom and accountability is what works

and with the modern far lefties, it is always somebody else that has to pay the price.

 

[Federberg]

I partially agree, except getting people to pay for healthcare directly based on habits - indirectly maybe. I think that is built into the cost of cigarettes already. I used to smoke once upon a time and recall looking into it at the time - I think the tax intake was higher than the health costs. If you start charging for healthcare directly, then it could open it up to other things - even some sports - i.e. If you participate in a dangerous sport then do you pay for injuries?

I agree and that's fair, and a reasonable refinement to the thesis, it doesn't contradict the point. We're assuming of course that the State will use the funds generated from cigarette sales appropriately of course