Why Serve and Volley died out ?

[tennisville]

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3SmrwGg1gE[/video]

Excellant video

1) The video focuses primarily on the changes at Wimbledon. After the 1994 final (7-6, 7-6, 6-0 S&V-fest), apparently people started to think that S&V was boring. So they adjusted the surface + balls to give baseliners a chance. This was done gradually over the course of years. They tried to balance out the game. But...

2) Racket technology was already starting to advance in leaps & bounds. With bigger heads & lighter rackets, the western grip became less of a risky strategy, so kids in the early nineties were taught to put heavy topspin on their shots.

3) String technology also made it easier to put some serious rpms into the high-topspin shots; the video implies that Borg could out-topspin Nadal if he had access to the current technology. The big servers still continued to dominate Wimbledon, but the volleyers were less effective due to the ball dipping more quickly.

4) If the courts & balls were reverted back to their original states, the S&V guys would have more of a chance. But not a lot would change in terms of style, because nobody playing today learned how to hit a hard, flat ball. Few would S&V--they'd just stick to what they know.


Your take on this ?

 

[Kieran]

Very good. The technology changed, then the culture changed. And as he says, even if they brought back lighter balls and faster grass, the serve volleyers have died out. Look at those old wooden rackets - as he says, they look like squash rackets. It's almost like talking about a different sport, even going back twenty years...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I have mentioned in another thread that I think there is still room for experimenting here and there, but I watch the juniors in my club, who are just amazing players, and they don't even practice volleying for more than a couple minutes, let alone S&V. It is gone and probably not coming back. I wish there was a balance where we had a bunch of S&V players and baseliners...Right now, it is all about who is going to outlast whom.

By the way, my to favorite S&Vers were Edberg and Rafter. They did not have the fastest serves, but that is not the idea when serving and volleying anyways. You want to get closer to the net as fast as you can to cover as much of it. Edberg had the nice kick that gave him time to get close. I miss his style of play.

 

[herios]

Didn't die out yet. Mahut and Stepanek are still around.

 

[Kieran]

Didn't die out yet. Mahut and Stepanek are still around.

That's true, and Stakhovsky was like a throwback against Roger at Wimbledon. But these are almost the exceptions that prove the rule...

 

[Front242]

Great video. It's slowly dying but not yet dead. Besides Stepanek, Mahut and Stakhovsky who've already been mentioned there's also Llodra who always seems to perform well at the Paris masters and personally I always love watching him play. If he's fit I expect him to take out a few big players there.

 

[Front242]

Part of the reason I think Llodra and Stepanek are still able to play so well with this pretty archaic style of play by today's standards is that they're both very good doubles players so they're both great volleyers. I'd actually like to see more singles players experiment with doubles to improve their volleying skills. They don't have to S&V but at least know when to approach the net to finish a point off instead of pointlessly tiring themselves out in long rallies.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

with the new spin effect racquets and also players like jj drop shotting /slicing a lot, and nadal, djokovic , del potro making an effort to bring out more volleys etc, I think the days or baseline bashing are going to be less and less.

 

[the AntiPusher]

An very exceptional post by tennisville. The way the game is today, it's almost impossible to see a classic S&V players try to withstand Djokovic, Nadal and Murray penetrating service returns and baseline onslaught for a required 4 plus hours to win a grand slam.

 

[Riotbeard]

An very exceptional post by tennisville. The way the game is today, it's almost impossible to see a classic S&V players try to withstand Djokovic, Nadal and Murray penetrating service returns and baseline onslaught for a required 4 plus hours to win a grand slam.

This is the rub. I think its possible to have a top 10 s & v players, but the top guys are such insanely good returners that it is difficult to imagine a serve volley player regularly beating the top 4

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

An very exceptional post by tennisville. The way the game is today, it's almost impossible to see a classic S&V players try to withstand Djokovic, Nadal and Murray penetrating service returns and baseline onslaught for a required 4 plus hours to win a grand slam.

This is the rub. I think its possible to have a top 10 s & v players, but the top guys are such insanely good returners that it is difficult to imagine a serve volley player regularly beating the top 4

While I agree with everything BS and Riot is saying, I have one issue I would like to bring up. I am not %100 sure if what we see as a great return today would be considered great against a good S&V player. Let me try to explain:

A good return against a serve and volleyer has always been the one where the ball dips quickly down to the ankles of the volleyer, forcing him to hit up, so that you have an easier shot to pass with the next shot. If the volleyer had a higher, flatter ball with less spin, he can hit his volley down, have the upper hand in the point.

Today, a good return is generally considered one that goes deep towards the baseline , usually flat, one that puts the server on his heels, like Nole does all the time, or Murray. They don't need the ball to dip, in fact the opposite is desired, so that the server cannot get the upper hand in the rally.

So, a great , textbook return today is higher, flat and goes deep...practically a sitter for a good volleyer, as opposed to a great return from yesteryear, where it had to be short, with a lot of spin and short angles, which used to make life miserable for serve and volley guys.

Now , I am not saying todays players are incapable of the short, low, topsin return. In fact, the top guys would probably adjust nicely, and a guy like Nadal already has the spin for it, but I really doubt if the guys outside of top ten have the consistency to have the top spin on a regular bases.

In short, the definition of a great return , and the way it is practiced has changed drastically and a guy with a nice high kick serve today might sneak in a couple of wins playing S&V. If you are a guy that constantly practice deep flat returns, play against baseliners all year long and you meet a serve and volleyer, there has to be an adjustment period, and I am not sure if every player would adjust nicely. I am pretty sure the top guys would though...

Or maybe it is all wishful thinking on my part because I do miss the Edbergs and Rafters of this world.:s

 

[El Dude]

with the new spin effect racquets and also players like jj drop shotting /slicing a lot, and nadal, djokovic , del potro making an effort to bring out more volleys etc, I think the days or baseline bashing are going to be less and less.

The game will continue to change - we won't stay stuck on "baseline bashing" for ever, but what it will require is another style that can "answer" it given the conditions of the courts and tech today.

My hope is that the game evolves to encourage a variety of styles.

 

[Kieran]

That's true, El Dude. There's been power tennis since Lew Hoad's huge right arm. Connors heralded the era of face-scratching baseline rallies - people in the seventies incredibly wondered if his sci-fi steel racket should be banned.

One thing that's never coming back is a style that encourages the first serve to be a set up placement serve for the first volley, like Edberg or Rafter. Outside of savage force, Rafa has the best tactical serve - used often as an opening gambit in constructing the point - but it's difficult to imagine a less than destructive first serve being used for serve-volley purposes. In other words, the model would be Sampras, who often approached the net in his slippers with a dust pan and small brush to sweep up the debris of what was back then called "the return of serve..."

 

[tenniskiosk]

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3SmrwGg1gE[/video]

Excellant video

1) The video focuses primarily on the changes at Wimbledon. After the 1994 final (7-6, 7-6, 6-0 S&V-fest), apparently people started to think that S&V was boring. So they adjusted the surface + balls to give baseliners a chance. This was done gradually over the course of years. They tried to balance out the game. But...

2) Racket technology was already starting to advance in leaps & bounds. With bigger heads & lighter rackets, the western grip became less of a risky strategy, so kids in the early nineties were taught to put heavy topspin on their shots.

3) String technology also made it easier to put some serious rpms into the high-topspin shots; the video implies that Borg could out-topspin Nadal if he had access to the current technology. The big servers still continued to dominate Wimbledon, but the volleyers were less effective due to the ball dipping more quickly.

4) If the courts & balls were reverted back to their original states, the S&V guys would have more of a chance. But not a lot would change in terms of style, because nobody playing today learned how to hit a hard, flat ball. Few would S&V--they'd just stick to what they know.


Your take on this ?

i agree with this video. In the past, many players used rackets with a small head size so that they have better control of the ball. However, nowadays, due to string technology, rackets with a bigger head size are also able to give players the control they need. Having said that, this combined with the top spin that players generate many are confident of hitting a harder passing shot, or some are even hitting a much harder ball at the serve and volleyer at the net, and this might have been a major deterrent for players to embrace the serve and volley style of play.


visit me at
http://tenniskiosk.com/