What ingredients made Djokovic peak 2011 and fall so quickly after? All Nadal, or....

[NADAL2005RG]

Was it all about Nadal or was it something else?

 

[NADAL2005RG]

Did the 6 hour AO final take too much out of Djokovic, permanently?
Did Nadal stopping Djokovic's momentum at 2012 RG change everything?
Or was it something else?

 

[Mastoor]

We will have to wait for his biography, proper one not a cookbook describing Nadal, to find that out.

 

[Kieran]

NADAL2005RG, say hello to Mastoor. I think you both will get along fine...

 

[NADAL2005RG]

^ I guess you didn't read the doping thread....

 

[Riotbeard]

I think the 2011 level was relatively unsustainable, and a decline was inevitable to some degree. Nadal has had an impact this year. It's been Djokovic's worst year post-2011, and that certainly has to do with Nadal gobbling up titles, but in general, Novak lacked the consistency he even had last year. But Djokovic was not as good in 2012, and it would be crazy to attribute 2012 to Nadal, who didn't have a great season by his standards. He also went through some personal issues over the past 2 years with deaths in the family and his father being ill.

 

[zalvar]

I don't think he "fell" per se. Like everyone's been saying, the 2011 level is unsustainable. He was bound to come back to earth. I'll still take him over 99.9% of the tour except against Nadal.

 

[Front242]

He switched from egg protein to whey.

 

[NADAL2005RG]

One thing is for sure, 2010 Nadal would not have lost to 2011 Djokovic. I mean, if you look at how short Nadal was hitting the ball in 2011, its pretty obvious that Nadal's level had a lot to do with why Djokovic won all those titles (plus Federer's decline). Then in 2012, Nadal returned to a high level (and dominated the clay season), Federer returned to a high level (and dominated Wimbledon). By the US Open, Djokovic's confidence was shot (or maybe like I said earlier, losing to Nadal 3 times in the clay season dented Djokovic's confidence). These are all theories, but something substantial happened. Also remember that egg that Djokovic used for recovery? Which years did he use that?

 

[Moxie]

^ I guess you didn't read the doping thread....

Oh, I'm pretty sure he did. Irony is probably lost on both of you. One fannish thread to counter another. Yours could have been more worthy of discussion if you didn't make it from such an obviously biased place.

 

[DarthFed]

One thing is for sure, 2010 Nadal would not have lost to 2011 Djokovic. I mean, if you look at how short Nadal was hitting the ball in 2011, its pretty obvious that Nadal's level had a lot to do with why Djokovic won all those titles (plus Federer's decline). Then in 2012, Nadal returned to a high level (and dominated the clay season), Federer returned to a high level (and dominated Wimbledon). By the US Open, Djokovic's confidence was shot (or maybe like I said earlier, losing to Nadal 3 times in the clay season dented Djokovic's confidence). These are all theories, but something substantial happened. Also remember that egg that Djokovic used for recovery? Which years did he use that?

2011 Djokovic was a lot more dominant than 2010 Nadal. Rafa made the finals of the last 3 slams in 2011 just as he did in 2010 but there was one difference...

 

[NADAL2005RG]

^ I guess you didn't read the doping thread....

Oh, I'm pretty sure he did. Irony is probably lost on both of you. One fannish thread to counter another. Yours could have been more worthy of discussion if you didn't make it from such an obviously biased place.

All I see is you and Kieran posting personal attacks instead of posting about tennis.....

One thing is for sure, 2010 Nadal would not have lost to 2011 Djokovic. I mean, if you look at how short Nadal was hitting the ball in 2011, its pretty obvious that Nadal's level had a lot to do with why Djokovic won all those titles (plus Federer's decline). Then in 2012, Nadal returned to a high level (and dominated the clay season), Federer returned to a high level (and dominated Wimbledon). By the US Open, Djokovic's confidence was shot (or maybe like I said earlier, losing to Nadal 3 times in the clay season dented Djokovic's confidence). These are all theories, but something substantial happened. Also remember that egg that Djokovic used for recovery? Which years did he use that?

2011 Djokovic was a lot more dominant than 2010 Nadal. Rafa made the finals of the last 3 slams in 2011 just as he did in 2010 but there was one difference...

The question is what factored in to Djokovic's sudden domination (and immediate fall - losing to Nadal 3 times in 2012, and losing to Federer at 2012 Wimbledon, and losing to Murray at the US Open)? It must be the shortest prime on record. Whereas Nadal's prime years were 2008, 2010, half of 2012, 2013. All those years were the same level of Nadal. Djokovic whereas has a clear prime in 2011 and no other years similar at all. I'm just trying to find out what the cause was. Was it other players? Was it specifically Nadal, that 6 hour final damaging Djokovic permanently? Was it the recovery egg (if it was only being used in 2011)? Anyone have more data on that?

 

[DarthFed]

^ I guess you didn't read the doping thread....

Oh, I'm pretty sure he did. Irony is probably lost on both of you. One fannish thread to counter another. Yours could have been more worthy of discussion if you didn't make it from such an obviously biased place.

All I see is you and Kieran posting personal attacks instead of posting about tennis.....

One thing is for sure, 2010 Nadal would not have lost to 2011 Djokovic. I mean, if you look at how short Nadal was hitting the ball in 2011, its pretty obvious that Nadal's level had a lot to do with why Djokovic won all those titles (plus Federer's decline). Then in 2012, Nadal returned to a high level (and dominated the clay season), Federer returned to a high level (and dominated Wimbledon). By the US Open, Djokovic's confidence was shot (or maybe like I said earlier, losing to Nadal 3 times in the clay season dented Djokovic's confidence). These are all theories, but something substantial happened. Also remember that egg that Djokovic used for recovery? Which years did he use that?

2011 Djokovic was a lot more dominant than 2010 Nadal. Rafa made the finals of the last 3 slams in 2011 just as he did in 2010 but there was one difference...

The question is what factored in to Djokovic's sudden domination (and immediate fall - losing to Nadal 3 times in 2012, and losing to Federer at 2012 Wimbledon, and losing to Murray at the US Open)? It must be the shortest prime on record. Whereas Nadal's prime years were 2008, 2010, half of 2012, 2013. All those years were the same level of Nadal. Djokovic whereas has a clear prime in 2011 and no other years similar at all. I'm just trying to find out what the cause was. Was it other players? Was it specifically Nadal, that 6 hour final damaging Djokovic permanently? Was it the recovery egg (if it was only being used in 2011)? Anyone have more data on that?

You have a weird definition of someone's prime but I'm not surprised. Rafa was in his prime in 2008, suddenly out of it in 2009, returned in 2010, out of it in 2011, and returned at RG 2012, suddenly out, only to return in 2013. Am I understanding that correct?

There is the possibility that 2011 was unsustainable and perhaps Djokovic will never have a year that compares. I don't think a win, even one that took 6 hours, would suddenly damage Djokovic permanently. Djokovic is not the best player on grass or clay and that is a factor. He can win at RG, and he could win another Wimbledon, but he is not the favorite there.

If you are looking for where Djokovic has really failed badly the last 2 years it is at the USO. Both times he came in with a chance to salvage what had been a "poorish" year and both times it was a rather weak performance in the final.

 

[NADAL2005RG]

Nadal is player who broke his foot even before he won a slam title. Nadal is the player who fans and experts all across the globe have predicted an early retirement. Nadal is the player who injured his knee and stomach muscle in 2009, and again had serious knee complaints in 2012 (as evidenced by the photos of his knee injection marks at 2012 Halle/Wimbledon). Does it really mystify you why he had a lull in 2009 and 2012? Its the complete opposite of the mysterious case of Djokovic.

 

[nehmeth]

^ I guess you didn't read the doping thread....

Oh, I'm pretty sure he did. Irony is probably lost on both of you. One fannish thread to counter another. Yours could have been more worthy of discussion if you didn't make it from such an obviously biased place.

Djoko fan puts up a demeaning thread and you call it trollish. A Nadal fan puts up a stupid thread in response and it's simply fannish. Moxie, I protest the journalistic bias!

 

[Denis]

I agree. Actually, I think that if the other thread stays open only to discuss some kind of medical treatment, this one should be closed. What is the merit of this thread?

 

[Front242]

Nadal is player who broke his foot even before he won a slam title. Nadal is the player who fans and experts all across the globe have predicted an early retirement. Nadal is the player who injured his knee and stomach muscle in 2009, and again had serious knee complaints in 2012 (as evidenced by the photos of his knee injection marks at 2012 Halle/Wimbledon). Does it really mystify you why he had a lull in 2009 and 2012? Its the complete opposite of the mysterious case of Djokovic.

That's true it is the complete opposite. Djokovic hasn't had any magic injections in his knee.

 

[nehmeth]

I agree. If the other thread stays open only to discuss some kind of medical treatment, this one should be closed.

Not my point Denis. I'm not a fan of either thread, and I was just harassing my friend moxie while saying so.

 

[NADAL2005RG]

Nadal is player who broke his foot even before he won a slam title. Nadal is the player who fans and experts all across the globe have predicted an early retirement. Nadal is the player who injured his knee and stomach muscle in 2009, and again had serious knee complaints in 2012 (as evidenced by the photos of his knee injection marks at 2012 Halle/Wimbledon). Does it really mystify you why he had a lull in 2009 and 2012? Its the complete opposite of the mysterious case of Djokovic.

That's true it is the complete opposite. Djokovic hasn't had any magic injections in his knee.

No such thing as magic painkillers/numbing injections, as shown at Halle and Wimbledon 2012.

 

[Denis]

I agree. If the other thread stays open only to discuss some kind of medical treatment, this one should be closed.

Not my point Denis. I'm not a fan of either thread, and I was just harassing my friend moxie while saying so.

Edited my response.