What if Rafa had played tennis with right hand?

[GameSetAndMath]

Rafa is naturally right handed. But, his coaches insisted that he play tennis with left hand. What if that decision was not made and had Rafa played tennis with right hand.

In that case, his venomous topspin forehand would be coming to the forehand side of right handed players and so will not be as vicious.

Would Ralph have had as much success as he currently has?

p.s. Please feel free to come to this party and say it sucks.

 

[Moxie]

It is a great misunderstanding about Rafa to think that Uncle Toni insisted that he play left-handed, as if it were an artificial choice, imposed on him. What Toni recognized was that young Rafa played football with the left. As a test, he offered him 100 pesetas if he hit a goal with his left foot, and 200 pesetas if he hit a goal with his right foot. This way, he said, he discovered that Rafa's strength was on his left side. Also, Rafa hit two-handed off of both sides, as a lot of kids do. When Toni told him it was time to take one hand off, Rafa says he chose to become a lefty. So it was a process. And I don't think that Nadal is a pure right-hander...he's ambidextrous.

As to your question of what if he'd decided to play right-handed, which was an option: one thing that he and Toni have both said that suffered by choosing the left was his serve, since his throwing motion is on the right side, which is what is compared to service motion. So he'd likely have had a better serve. But he wouldn't have had the lefty advantage, which clearly flummoxed Roger, and his one-hander. But since he is such a strong player, it's hard to say what he would have done with a better serve.

 

[Federberg]

I don't think that Rafa would have been anywhere close to the player he is today. Taking away the lefty stuff would be akin to cutting Samson's hair in my view

 

[Ricardo]

I thought it’s guilty by default to speculate on things that didn’t happen?

 

[Federberg]

I thought it’s guilty by default to speculate on things that didn’t happen?

Lol! Nice to see you try to take me on on behalf of El Dude. But pay attention here... I'll spell it out for you... nothing wrong with fun speculation in my view. Sharing of opinions and all that. I'm just not down with trying to back subjective views with phoney statistics to lend them legitimacy. I would have thought you of all people would agree with that, but hey ho... whatever floats your boat mate. Doesn't matter to me!

 

[Moxie]

I don't think that Rafa would have been anywhere close to the player he is today. Taking away the lefty stuff would be akin to cutting Samson's hair in my view

Are you saying that you put a 17(and counting)-Major career down mainly to left-handedness?

 

[Federberg]

Are you saying that you put a 17(and counting)-Major career down mainly to left-handedness?

I'm saying that changing something as fundamental as that and expecting similar outcomes is folly...

 

[Moxie]

I'm saying that changing something as fundamental as that and expecting similar outcomes is folly...

No, you said that you didn't think 'Rafa would have been anywhere close to the player that he is.' So you're very heavily weighing left-handedness over other factors, such as athleticism, hand-eye coordination, strength, tennis IQ, natural competitiveness and will to win, and other things that have nothing to do with hand you hold the racquet in, it would seem to me.

 

[Federberg]

No, you said that you didn't think 'Rafa would have been anywhere close to the player that he is.' So you're very heavily weighing left-handedness over other factors, such as athleticism, hand-eye coordination, strength, tennis IQ, natural competitiveness and will to win, and other things that have nothing to do with hand you hold the racquet in, it would seem to me.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to disagree with me about. But however you want to take what I say, means nothing to me. Having played quite a few racquet sports to a decent level, lefties have a totally different understanding of angles, spins and trajectories. It's a completely different experience for an opponent. When you face a righty it's pretty much the norm, it's within the comfort zone of your imagination. So yes I am absolutely steadfast in my belief that his left handedness has been critical to his success. You might want to tell yourself that all those other qualities are more (or as) important but I don't look at it that way. Success in sports is a fragile construct that could fall apart if one element is missing. I'm not going to simply assume that his swapping from left to right will make no difference. I don't believe it. His opponents would have a different type of shot coming at them, and it's not clear to me that it would be as difficult to find a solution. Just my view

 

[atttomole]

If he played with his right hand, I think he would have fewer slams than he has, especially when you consider how much of an advantage his lefty play gave him versus Roger.

 

[Moxie]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to disagree with me about. But however you want to take what I say, means nothing to me. Having played quite a few racquet sports to a decent level, lefties have a totally different understanding of angles, spins and trajectories. It's a completely different experience for an opponent. When you face a righty it's pretty much the norm, it's within the comfort zone of your imagination. So yes I am absolutely steadfast in my belief that his left handedness has been critical to his success. You might want to tell yourself that all those other qualities are more (or as) important but I don't look at it that way. Success in sports is a fragile construct that could fall apart if one element is missing. I'm not going to simply assume that his swapping from left to right will make no difference. I don't believe it. His opponents would have a different type of shot coming at them, and it's not clear to me that it would be as difficult to find a solution. Just my view

I don't need you to explain what makes lefthanded-ness an advantage in tennis, thank you. I don't think any of us said that results would be similar. No one actually speculated that part. So I thought your initial post was an overstatement. I would agree that if you change something that fundamental, you have no idea what the athlete would be like, but I do think that a lot of things go into making a great tennis player. Would you make the same statement about McEnroe or Navratilova? Would you say, 'if Roger were left-handed with a two handed backhand, he wouldn't have had near the same career?...or 'that he'd have won loads more'?

 

[Federberg]

I don't need you to explain what makes lefthanded-ness an advantage in tennis, thank you. I don't think any of us said that results would be similar. No one actually speculated that part. So I thought your initial post was an overstatement. I would agree that if you change something that fundamental, you have no idea what the athlete would be like, but I do think that a lot of things go into making a great tennis player. Would you make the same statement about McEnroe or Navratilova? Would you say, 'if Roger were left-handed with a two handed backhand, he wouldn't have had near the same career?...or 'that he'd have won loads more'?

well of course I would make exactly the same statement for Mac, Martina or Federer. It's common sense. Make a change like that and you're talking completely different players.

Look you might want to transact in some sort of perverse Fedal thing here, but this is about sports, I don't give two hoots which athlete it is. You don't construct the achievements of a sportsman from the underlying factors additively. It's an omelette. Infinitely complex. Sure you can speculate if you want that in some Earth 2, Rafa is a right hander or Roger is a left hander and they achieve the same, but there's a one in a very very large number that that's the case. Please delete from your mind that this has something to do with Rafa, this is more profound than that...

 

[Moxie]

It's you who's making it a Fedal thing. I'm only saying that I don't think you can say he definitely wouldn't have had as much success. To me, it's not knowable. For you, the lefty-ness makes it a certainty. I think you over-state your case.

 

[Federberg]

It's you who's making it a Fedal thing. I'm only saying that I don't think you can say he definitely wouldn't have had as much success. To me, it's not knowable. For you, the lefty-ness makes it a certainty. I think you over-state your case.

Lol! It's entirely in your own mind Moxie. You assumed I took my position because it's Rafa. If the thread had been about Federer being a lefty I would have had emphatically the same view. You jumped all over it because it's Rafa. So it's Fedal in your mind. Sorry...

 

[Moxie]

Lol! It's entirely in your own mind Moxie. You assumed I took my position because it's Rafa. If the thread had been about Federer being a lefty I would have had emphatically the same view. You jumped all over it because it's Rafa. So it's Fedal in your mind. Sorry...

Stop telling me what is in my mind. You're the one that assumes I'm gaming for a Fedal fight. I made a mild correction to GSM's OP about how Rafa became a lefty, and then I asked you if your statement that Nadal wouldn't have had nearly the same career was all about left-handedness. To which you re-characterised what you said in a completely different way. To me, you got defensive because you got caught overstating the point, and now you're blaming me that we're arguing. All I have said is that it's unknowable.

 

[Moxie]

Rafa is naturally right handed. But, his coaches insisted that he play tennis with left hand. What if that decision was not made and had Rafa played tennis with right hand.

In that case, his venomous topspin forehand would be coming to the forehand side of right handed players and so will not be as vicious.

Would Ralph have had as much success as he currently has?

p.s. Please feel free to come to this party and say it sucks.

Since it's your thread, do you have any opinion?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

It is a great misunderstanding about Rafa to think that Uncle Toni insisted that he play left-handed, as if it were an artificial choice, imposed on him. What Toni recognized was that young Rafa played football with the left. As a test, he offered him 100 pesetas if he hit a goal with his left foot, and 200 pesetas if he hit a goal with his right foot. This way, he said, he discovered that Rafa's strength was on his left side. Also, Rafa hit two-handed off of both sides, as a lot of kids do. When Toni told him it was time to take one hand off, Rafa says he chose to become a lefty. So it was a process. And I don't think that Nadal is a pure right-hander...he's ambidextrous.

I have not read Ralph's biography. However, I have read several articles about him. They said that he is a right hander in normal day to day life. However, they also said that at a very young age Rafa was playing tennis very well with either hand and so they had to make a decision as to which way to go and the coaches decided it.

Don't ask me for citations as I am telling this as a summary from several articles I read over several years. Is the above story incorrect?

BTW, I agree with you that Rafa is ambidextrous in a limited sense. Apparently Rafa was indeed ambidextrous as far as tennis is concerned, but not in normal day to day activities.

 

[britbox]

I thought it’s guilty by default to speculate on things that didn’t happen?

Nah, but we can all disagree on the speculation.

 

[Moxie]

I have not read Ralph's biography. However, I have read several articles about him. They said that he is a right hander in normal day to day life. However, they also said that at a very young age Rafa was playing tennis very well with either hand and so they had to make a decision as to which way to go and the coaches decided it.

Don't ask me for citations as I am telling this as a summary from several articles I read over several years. Is the above story incorrect?

BTW, I agree with you that Rafa is ambidextrous in a limited sense. Apparently Rafa was indeed ambidextrous as far as tennis is concerned, but not in normal day to day activities.

I don't expect you to be as conversant with the intricacies of the Nadal biography as I am, as a fan. Your take on the story is a bit off, though. Firstly, there was only one coach, Toni. Secondly, I explained to you the story of how Toni came to his opinion as to which side Nadal had his power on, as per above re: football. As to your other point, Rafa played 2-handed on both sides, as a lot of kids do. Finally, Toni told him that he had to take one hand off. ("How many champions to you know of that play 2-handed on both sides?") According to Rafa, he was the one that decided, in the end, though obviously Toni had a opinion, based on his football. There is almost no such thing as a completely ambidextrous person, (i.e., one who does everything equally well with either hand.) However, a lot of people are completely inept with their off-hand. Those who aren't can make rather fluid choices about what they do with which hand/foot, or both. I think the important point about Rafa is that he is left-footed in football/soccer, which many people consider he could also have had a reasonable pro career in. This is likely why he/Toni chose for him to go with the left hand. But, by virtue of his strong right side, it's hard to say how he might have played as a righty. In any case, aside from the obvious lefty advantages, Nadal has had the dexterity of his right hand to help him with the bh, also. Obviously, the choice has had its advantages, but it wasn't made cynically just to give him an advantage, and out of nowhere, and not just by Toni. I don't see how Nadal would have had so much success if it weren't the right choice for him, based on strength on his left side.

 

[Federberg]

Stop telling me what is in my mind. You're the one that assumes I'm gaming for a Fedal fight. I made a mild correction to GSM's OP about how Rafa became a lefty, and then I asked you if your statement that Nadal wouldn't have had nearly the same career was all about left-handedness. To which you re-characterised what you said in a completely different way. To me, you got defensive because you got caught overstating the point, and now you're blaming me that we're arguing. All I have said is that it's unknowable.

To you I got defensive. To which I say again.. only in your mind. I simply expanded on my earlier comment as you seemed to want clarification. I don’t see my response to you as completely different. In fact I read your perceiving it as different because we fundamentally disagree about what enables a sportsman.... any sportsman to be successful. The problem is that it seems quite clear that your response is triggered by the fact this is about Rafa. I honestly don’t give a hoot who it is, to me this is about how sporting success is achieved plain and simple