Moxie wrote:
<blockquote>
Billie wrote:
<blockquote>
Calitennis127 wrote:
<blockquote>
Billie wrote:
Another amazing stat: Remarkably, Djokovic has more titles than losses on hard courts since the beginning of 2011. He was won 29 titles since the beginning of 2011 and lost only 25 times, going 239-25 on the surface during that time.
And yet, Broken and Moxie (and Kieran) think that there is nothing questionable about him and Nadal have the same number of US Open titles.</blockquote>
Well, Rafa first made the final in 2010 and Nole did it in 2007. Frankly you can’t exclude number of finals as if that is not a good result. Yes Nole had some tough times at the end of the slam season due to scheduling, weather, it is tough to win it if you play the whole season and go deep in every tournament. Nadal made 2 finals in all of his years as a professional and won them both. He perhaps got a bit lucky and every player needs that. I have no doubt that if Nole had to play 4 days out of the last 5 (like in 2012), or had physical difficulties (like in 2013), or had to play in 100 degree weather like in 2014, this year, he probably wouldn’t have won it past September. People sometimes act as if anybody should win everything, well it is hard as heck. I am convinced that if USO were at the beginning of the year and AO were the last of the majors, that Nole’s title count would have been different. Anyway I am sure he can win another title or 2 here and “rectify†his “poor†record in NY.
</blockquote>
Actually, you forgot that Nadal was in the final at the USO in 2011, when he lost to Nole. But I wouldn’t say he was “lucky†in the USO’s he did win. What can you mean by that? In 2010 and 2013, he was the best player in that part of the season, no doubt. He was a bit unlucky that 2008 was an Olympic year, to your point of running out of gas late in a year when you’re winning everything. In fact, that’s why many predicted that Rafa would never win the USO. (I believe that BB recently admitted to that.) It’s actually a bit rich to sing that song for Novak, when he never loses in Beijing, and has won so many YECs. He’s actually often done well in the late part of the season. You don’t really have to excuse Novak’s performances at the USO to Cali…he’s just mad that Nadal won there twice. Dispassionately, Novak has only lost in finals there to the other of the big 3. Denis thinks the worst one was to Murray in 2012. But Murray was the better player on that day, especially as the better wind player. I’d argue that the worse one was in the SFs to Nishikori last year, where he’d at least have had a better shot at Cilic and his hot hand, with his ROS, than the burnt out Kei. In any case, it’s worth remembering that having 2 USO’s is a very fine thing.
</blockquote>
I am not excusing anybody or anything, I am just realistic. I won’t get into Cali’s and your arguments about how many USOs Nadal should have won or not and the same about Nole. I am just saying that sometimes you need a bit of luck, the stars to align, perhaps, something that will help you get to fight for the title and still have enough to win it. Every player needs that! It funny that I forgot about 2011 but imagine that what happened only 6 days after that to Nole against Delpo in DC semi final happened in that 3rd set in USO final, the winner would have been Rafa again. But it turned out that Nole was lucky and his shoulder did hold up then and won it. But he did get injured just a week after that and later he said that he learned from that experience. He was never that same force for the rest of the season. Luckily the slam season was over and he was successful in those matches. In 2012 Nole was the only top guy who played both Toronto and Cincy and made the finals of both, and after the Olympics. He played his quarter final match on Thursday, then it was the mess of a Saturday semi final where it was so windy and finally the storm came up and washed his match vs Ferrer so they had to resume it on Sunday, where they had to play 3 more sets, only for Nole to come back and play again on Monday in windy conditions against well rested and confident Murray and still the match was taken to a 5th set where finally Nole started to cramp up and just couldn’t play anymore. That match, to my knowledge and by Nole’s admission last year in China via Q&A with his fans, is his worst loss in a major. But sometimes things like that happen and that is what I call being lucky or unlucky. If that scenario were to be played this past USO, I don’t know that Nole would have won. Frankly last summer (2014) was understandable to me, after winning Wimbledon and his wedding, he just wasn’t physically and mentally ready to compete at the highest level. But if he had a bit of luck and didn’t have to play in those hot and humid conditions, maybe he could have sneaked by Nishikori and had a shot at another title. I mean Cilic steamrolled past Federer, who is a 5 time champion, and was lucky that Federer was spent from his previous match. When would Cilic win a major if he had to face a full on Federer or Rafa or Nole? It doesn’t mean the eventual winners didn’t deserve their wins, it just means they needed a bit of luck to do it.
