Should Shanghai hold a Masters?

[britbox]

I get the ATP's strategy on trying to get into the markets of the Far East, but looking at all the footage, the venues are barely half full.

Shanghai has a population of between 14 and 24 million depending on what stats you use.... and they can't fill a 15,000 capacity stadium?

It's either pretty shoddy marketing by the ATP or the Chinese just aren't remotely interested in Tennis.  Even half the pathetic crowd aren't oriental.

Does the ATP revert to it's European. US, South American power base or continue trying it's luck in foreign markets?

 

[Billie]

Money rules everything, tennis is no exception.  Aren't the winnings here one of the highest at this tournament level?

 

[britbox]

Money rules everything, tennis is no exception. Aren’t the winnings here one of the highest at this tournament level?

Maybe, but I still get saddened when venues with a rich tradition (i.e. Hamburg) get dumped on for a quick buck.

 

[Billie]

Billie wrote:
Money rules everything, tennis is no exception. Aren’t the winnings here one of the highest at this tournament level?

Maybe, but I still get saddened when venues with a rich tradition (i.e. Hamburg) get dumped on for a quick buck.

Isn't that true for everything?  There are things in this world I can't comprehend, but it is what it is.

There are some great tennis fans in China, from all accounts, and they can support an event like this.

 

[XanderVex]

China is in the midst of economic difficulty.  I think it is more because of this than a lack of interest.  Even few years ago, the stands were much more full.

 

[britbox]

britbox wrote:
<blockquote>
Billie wrote:
Money rules everything, tennis is no exception. Aren’t the winnings here one of the highest at this tournament level?

Maybe, but I still get saddened when venues with a rich tradition (i.e. Hamburg) get dumped on for a quick buck.</blockquote>
Isn’t that true for everything? There are things in this world I can’t comprehend, but it is what it is. There are some great tennis fans in China, from all accounts, and they can support an event like this.

Yeah, but they aren't supporting the event.  24 million people?  The event should be sold out months in advance.  The person responsible for marketing this should be sacked!!

 

[britbox]

China is in the midst of economic difficulty. I think it is more because of this than a lack of interest. Even few years ago, the stands were much more full.

Still lots of rich people in China and a massive population.

 

[XanderVex]

Then it is because Roger Federer lost.

 

[calitennis127]

I think the matches this weekend will be packed and the environment will be buzzing. Shanghai always seems to draw smaller crowds in the earlier rounds than other major venues. Then on the weekends it becomes wild with excitement. I think the fans there are particularly star-obsessed.

 

[Billie]

Both Nole and Jo thanked the crowds for their support.  There must be something about how they treat the players that they like and keep coming to Shanghai.  Even Federer comes to this one even if it is his only tournament in Asia at this time of the year.

 

[herios]

Britbox, I thought you knew that the players have voted that this is their favorite ATP masters event?? I think it was last year. That is because they are treated like nowhere else, as Billie said. Also the $$ is good, I know this year they were third in term of prize money pay off (After IW and Miami) but 2-3 years ago I am sure they were paying the top prizes among all 9 masters. So my simple response, it will not revert back to yet another European event.

 

[Correspondent Kiu]

I say yes, Shanghai deserves a 1000 pointer.

It was much better crowds in Beijing this year than in Shanghai, does that tell you something?  Could it be the timing?

I think the tennis fans had too much Tennis in far east by the time this one started,  I mean between Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Seoul,  Wuhan, Tokyo(2 weeks in a row) and Beijing, The crowds were fed enough Tennis before Shanghai.

The WTA events started September 21st, ATP followed September 28th, we've had a full month of tennis in Asia.

This one should be in the middle, not at the end.

 

[calitennis127]

I say yes, Shanghai deserves a 1000 pointer. It was much better crowds in Beijing this year than in Shanghai, does that tell you something? Could it be the timing? I think the tennis fans had too much Tennis in far east by the time this one started, I mean between Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Seoul, Wuhan, Tokyo(2 weeks in a row) and Beijing, The crowds were fed enough Tennis before Shanghai. The WTA events started September 21st, ATP followed September 28th, we’ve had a full month of tennis in Asia. This one should be in the middle, not at the end.

Wouldn't this be like saying that the French Open should be held before Madrid and Rome because by the time the French Open starts Europeans have had their fill of tennis? Oh, and I can't imagine how exhausted they must be from so much tennis by the time Wimbledon comes around.....sheesh.

 

[calitennis127]

Both Nole and Jo thanked the crowds for their support. There must be something about how they treat the players that they like and keep coming to Shanghai. Even Federer comes to this one even if it is his only tournament in Asia at this time of the year.

I do think the weekend matches have a great vibe and great energy surrounding them. I remember when the Masters Cup was held there all of the matches were well-attended. I just think that the Chinese fans don't take much interest in players outside of the Top 10.

 

 

[Mastoor]

Definitely. They had some days in US Open with less crowd than Shanghai though America unlike China knows for the concept of corporate tickets.

I was under impression that on most days they had stadiums full in both Beijing and Shanghai though i watched No1e's and Rafa's matches so i don't know what happen in other ones.

 

 

 

[Billie]

Frankly, most of earlier rounds in tournaments are not that well attended.  Add to that the size of the stadium and that that there are matches on other courts, it is no wonder the stands looked emptier than what we would like sometimes.  Sometimes in Toronto 1st, 2nd round matches are not that well attended.

 

[Moxie]

I get your original point, BB.  I think the ATP and WTA are taking the long-view on the Asian market, which is set to explode, given the successes of Li Na and Kei Nishikori, especially.  And I'm not sure how you have an Asian Swing without finishing it with a MS1000.  Otherwise, you come back to Europe, and put something in where Madrid used to be.  But, what?  I would love to see South America have a MS, but it really doesn't fit in the calendar.  I don't really agree with Mastoor that the USO is under-attended, but corporate boxes/seats will always look empty until the big matches happen.  Perhaps organizers could figure a way to make a lottery for better seats when the mucky-mucks concede that they're not going.  That would be a win for those who go to the matches, and the organizers, whose seats look filled.

 

[Mastoor]

Well folks, pay attention to first rounds matches at uso next time, even when aces play that is not even half full. It may be similar at Roland Garros, but W and AO have better first rounds attendance than the other two. Fist rounds and also late night matches at IW can be in front of hardly anyone at the stadium, much worse than first rounds in Shanghai.

As for Shanghai Masters  it was (by players) voted the best masters tournament in the world for 5 consecutive years, so I'm sure that Chinese not only deserve to organise it, but hey should be given opportunity to organise a Grand Slam either in addition to 4 existing ones or instead of one them.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_World_Tour_Awards#Tournament_of_the_Year

 

 

 

[Moxie]

I will say 2 things about the early rounds of the USO on Ashe, and they likely apply to other tournaments:  the prime seats are often held by corporations, and can go empty in early rounds.  That's what you see in most shots from the court.  However, I usually attend the first few days, in order to see all the players, and I can tell you that the grounds and the courts are teeming with fans.  I'll have a seat in Ashe, which gives me access to all of the other 17 courts, which means I won't spend all of my time in Ashe, if that's what you're judging.  I'd seen Roger play several times,  so I only stayed long enough to see how the SABR was working, then I moved on to the outer courts to check out the youngsters and other players.  In the early rounds on the biggest court, a seasoned observer knows that the conclusion is usually a given, and s/he looks for the more competitive matches on the outer courts.  I didn't get into any other match without standing in a line this year, this on a very hot day with a record number of retirements.

The question is really how well-attended a tournament is in the last 3 rounds, when you're really only looking at the show court.  The Majors are all packed.  I checked the 2014 attendance records:  USO: 713,642; AO: 643,280; W: 484,391...I couldn't find the numbers for the French, but I doubt they were higher than the USO, since they have a capacity problem.  But please don't tell me that the US Open is not well-attended.  (Sorry, I have to defend the home-town major.      )

 

[britbox]

I will say 2 things about the early rounds of the USO on Ashe, and they likely apply to other tournaments: the prime seats are often held by corporations, and can go empty in early rounds. That’s what you see in most shots from the court. However, I usually attend the first few days, in order to see all the players, and I can tell you that the grounds and the courts are teeming with fans. I’ll have a seat in Ashe, which gives me access to all of the other 17 courts, which means I won’t spend all of my time in Ashe, if that’s what you’re judging. I’d seen Roger play several times, so I only stayed long enough to see how the SABR was working, then I moved on to the outer courts to check out the youngsters and other players. In the early rounds on the biggest court, a seasoned observer knows that the conclusion is usually a given, and s/he looks for the more competitive matches on the outer courts. I didn’t get into any other match without standing in a line this year, this on a very hot day with a record number of retirements. The question is really how well-attended a tournament is in the last 3 rounds, when you’re really only looking at the show court. The Majors are all packed. I checked the 2014 attendance records: USO: 713,642; AO: 643,280; W: 484,391…I couldn’t find the numbers for the French, but I doubt they were higher than the USO, since they have a capacity problem. But please don’t tell me that the US Open is not well-attended. (Sorry, I have to defend the home-town major.

)

Interesting stats - and good explanation on why the USO "seems" to be poorly attended at times, when in fact it isn't.  Wimbledon is usually teeming, so I guess it's got a bit of a capacity issue in comparison.  The French footprint (land wise) is pretty tiny compared to the other majors.