Research into the 70s

[Slasher1985]

I am conducting a research into the correct rankings of the Open Era.

I have problems with the 70s caused by the fact that the ATP site contains many errors on their site concerning draws from tournaments. This thread could be useful on my part to ask questions concerning correct draws of the 70s.

If anyone has access to old newspapers, can anyone tell me the tournaments a specific player named John Andrews played in 1974? ATP has only 11 of the 12 required tournaments. Or, if not, can anyone tell me what tournaments has ATP missing from this 1974 list:

Archive 1974

Thanks.

 

[tented]

I am conducting a research into the correct rankings of the Open Era.

I have problems with the 70s caused by the fact that the ATP site contains many errors on their site concerning draws from tournaments. This thread could be useful on my part to ask questions concerning correct draws of the 70s.

If anyone has access to old newspapers, can anyone tell me the tournaments a specific player named John Andrews played in 1974? ATP has only 11 of the 12 required tournaments. Or, if not, can anyone tell me what tournaments has ATP missing from this 1974 list:

Archive 1974

Thanks.

Salisbury
Washington, DC
Cincinnati
Bretton Woods
Canadian Open
Merion
US Open
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Hong Kong
Indian Open
Australian Open [this is tricky: it began on Dec. 21, but ended Jan. 1]

 

[tennisville]

I noticed that the first tournament Auckland , all matches are best of 5 and its a 1 week event. Did we have tournaments where you had to play 3 consecutive 5 setters to win ?

Wow that was tough compared to players who crib now that they cant play back to back 5 setters in the whole year (talking of the US Open)

 

[Slasher1985]

No, Auckland is not the tournament. It didn't count for the rankings. And I agree, there were many small tournaments back then which were played Bof5, although the game was not as physical.

I think Tented nailed this first question.

It appears that YE 1974 also counted AO from December 1974 (not AO from December 1973). This is Andrews' 12th tournament, and now I have his points matching the officials. Thanks for this suggestion, Tented.

 

[Slasher1985]

Australian Open [this is tricky: it began on Dec. 21, but ended Jan. 1]

These are the 1974 YE rankings.

17.01.1975

 

[tennisville]

Australian Open [this is tricky: it began on Dec. 21, but ended Jan. 1]

These are the 1974 YE rankings.

17.01.1975

The entire ranking points is 0 :huh: How can that be

 

[Slasher1985]

The entire ranking points is 0 :huh: How can that be

ATP don't have anything in their database. That is the purpose of my research. Redo the exact rankings and correct all their errors.

 

[tennisville]

The entire ranking points is 0 :huh: How can that be

ATP don't have anything in their database. That is the purpose of my research. Redo the exact rankings and correct all their errors.

From which year did they start having data for :huh: And what do you mean by errors ? What type of errors do you mean

 

[Slasher1985]

From which year did they start having data for :huh: And what do you mean by errors ? What type of errors do you mean

Calculation errors. They've got the rankings wrong in many instances. At least, I've discovered at least 10 errors for 1973. There's a lot of data you can check.

I'm sure you're familiar with Vilas asking the ATP to recompute the rankings as he thinks he was number 1. If ATP got 1p wrong for him, he'd be right. And there is high probability they did.

I don't know if you're familiar with my database:

Rankings Database

Ignore 1968-1972 for now, as I used the original 1973 to create rankings for the years not covered by the computer rankings in the Open Era. ATP has data starting with August 23, 1973.

 

[tennisville]

From which year did they start having data for :huh: And what do you mean by errors ? What type of errors do you mean

Calculation errors. They've got the rankings wrong in many instances. At least, I've discovered at least 10 errors for 1973. There's a lot of data you can check.

I'm sure you're familiar with Vilas asking the ATP to recompute the rankings as he thinks he was number 1. If ATP got 1p wrong for him, he'd be right. And there is high probability they did.

I don't know if you're familiar with my database:

Rankings Database

Ignore 1968-1972 for now, as I used the original 1973 to create rankings for the years not covered by the computer rankings in the Open Era. ATP has data starting with August 23, 1973.

I did not know on Vilas asking to check the rankings again , it would be sad if he was robbed because of the rankings flaw of the ATP. I am pretty sure he would not know that you are working on the rankings and found some flaws

What are you planning to do on the flaws ? You corrected them

 

[tented]

Australian Open [this is tricky: it began on Dec. 21, but ended Jan. 1]

These are the 1974 YE rankings.

17.01.1975

:lolz:

 

[Slasher1985]

I did not know on Vilas asking to check the rankings again , it would be sad if he was robbed because of the rankings flaw of the ATP. I am pretty sure he would not know that you are working on the rankings and found some flaws

What are you planning to do on the flaws ? You corrected them

Actually, he does know I am working on this. I have been in contact with Eduardo Puppo, a journalist working for Mr Vilas. He provided me with a lot of useful information I needed to start the work. I really do hope I am able to calculate the correct rankings though. Gonna take a while.

I have no idea what am I gonna do with the results. Gonna press the ATP to accept them in any way I can. A tennis forum is a good base for operations, especially one with extremely quality based posting, like for instance, how Frontier is right now.

 

[Slasher1985]

Here comes a new question.

This 1974 Richmond WCT draw is certainly incorrect:

Draw

Seeds are missing and especially... this has to have Okker in it, for the ATP website is missing 2 events he played in 1974. Anyone have the correct version?

Thanks.

 

[tented]

Here comes a new question.

This 1974 Richmond WCT draw is certainly incorrect:

Draw

Seeds are missing and especially... this has to have Okker in it, for the ATP website is missing 2 events he played in 1974. Anyone have the correct version?

Thanks.

I'm looking into it. I'll let you know if I figure it out.

 

[Slasher1985]

I'm looking into it. I'll let you know if I figure it out.

Or at least figure out what are Okker's 21 events played in 1974. This is a bit trickier than before.

 

[tented]

Here comes a new question.

This 1974 Richmond WCT draw is certainly incorrect:

Draw

Seeds are missing and especially... this has to have Okker in it, for the ATP website is missing 2 events he played in 1974. Anyone have the correct version?

Thanks.

I found two newspapers from 1974 which mention the Nastase/Gorman final. In both, Gorman is described as the No. 2 seed, even though he's listed as No. 4 in the draw on the ATP site.

My guess: The original No. 2 & 3 seeds withdrew from the tournament right before it began, so Gorman became the No. 2 seed. I also suspect Pohmann and Van Dillen were lucky losers, because their slots in the draw should be for seeded players.

 

[Slasher1985]

I found two newspapers from 1974 which mention the Nastase/Gorman final. In both, Gorman is described as the No. 2 seed, even though he's listed as No. 4 in the draw on the ATP site.

My guess: The original No. 2 & 3 seeds withdrew from the tournament right before it began, so Gorman became the No. 2 seed. I also suspect Pohmann and Van Dillen were lucky losers, because their slots in the draw should be for seeded players.

In which case, there is another ATP error right here. From looking to other players, no default is counted as a tournament in the average. And that default from Monte Carlo seems to be a withdrawal from what I see on the ITF site, so that tournament would surely not count. In which case, Okker has only 19 tournaments listed out of the 21 needed according to the official year end rankings.

The 2 missing tournaments are like Stan Smith's 1973 error. Actually, I forgot to tell you that the original rankings guessed wrong about a certain player named Jonathan Smith. They had Stan Smith count one of Jonathan's tournaments incorrectly. That was Stan Smith's missing 24th.

 

[tented]

I'm looking into it. I'll let you know if I figure it out.

Or at least figure out what are Okker's 21 events played in 1974. This is a bit trickier than before.

Johannesburg
London
Stockholm
Tehran
Barcelona
Madrid
US Open
Boston
Montreal
Wimbledon
Las Vegas
Dallas
Monte Carlo
Munich
Tuscon
Rotterdam
Washington
Miami
Toronto
Philadelphia
Lakeway

 

[Slasher1985]

Just said above.

Monte Carlo is a default on his part. A withdrawal before playing any match is not counted.
Dallas is the WCT finals. Not counted.

 

[tented]

Monte Carlo is a default on his part. A withdrawal before playing any match is not counted.
Dallas is the WCT finals. Not counted.

Sorry, but I can't figure out this one.