Nadal and Moya

[MargaretMcAleer]

Any Rafa fans know where is Moya I have not seen him in Rafa's box,I have seen Roig,being a GS I thought Moya would be at Wimbledon....or maybe I need my eyes checked

 

[tented]

Any Rafa fans know where is Moya I have not seen him in Rafa's box,I have seen Roig,being a GS I thought Moya would be at Wimbledon....or maybe I need my eyes checked

Your eyes are fine. Moya hasn’t been here for two years in a row.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Your eyes are fine. Moya hasn’t been here for two years in a row.

Phew, thanks....strange though dont you think? quite frankly he has not done much for Rafa's game,though I suppose he is a very good friend of Rafa and used to be his mentor.

 

[tented]

Phew, thanks....strange though dont you think? quite frankly he has not done much for Rafa's game,though I suppose he is a very good friend of Rafa and used to be his mentor.

I think Moya has been useless, and only around less than half the time.

 

[DarthFed]

I think Moya has been useless, and only around less than half the time.

Useless? Rafa was terrible for 2.5 years before hiring Moya in 2017.

 

[kskate2]

Your eyes are fine. Moya hasn’t been here for two years in a row.

You guys are too hard on Moya. Nads is definitely better since hiring him. I heard a commie say that Moya has scheduled weeks during the year to spend time with his family. Apparently Wimby falls under that scheduled time.

 

[DarthFed]

You guys are too hard on Moya. Nads is definitely better since hiring him. I heard a commie say that Moya has scheduled weeks during the year to spend time with his family. Apparently Wimby falls under that scheduled time.

I'm actually in disbelief anyone is criticizing Moya. He unfortunately helped turn the asshole's career around. He was crap after RG 2014 for 2.5 years

 

[brokenshoelace]

Useless? Rafa was terrible for 2.5 years before hiring Moya in 2017.

I tend to think coaches and their impact often get overrated by I have to agree, Moya has been huge for Nadal. Coaches in tennis aren't like basketball or some team sports. There aren't necessarily great coaches and bad coaches (I mean, there are but it's not so cut and dry). It's much more about time, circumstances, player/coach connection, etc... Moya was what Nadal needed at that moment given what he was going through in their careers especially due to their friendship, trust, etc... That's how Nadal is built as he doesn't let "outsiders" in. He's been huge in that regard.

 

[tented]

I tend to think coaches and their impact often get overrated by I have to agree, Moya has been huge for Nadal. Coaches in tennis aren't like basketball or some team sports. There aren't necessarily great coaches and bad coaches (I mean, there are but it's not so cut and dry). It's much more about time, circumstances, player/coach connection, etc... Moya was what Nadal needed at that moment given what he was going through in their careers especially due to their friendship, trust, etc... That's how Nadal is built as he doesn't let "outsiders" in. He's been huge in that regard.

Aside from being a friend, and not being an outsider, what do you think Moya has done to help Rafa’s game?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Aside from being a friend, and not being an outsider, what do you think Moya has done to help Rafa’s game?

Improve the serve significantly and moving him away from the abomination that was his 2016 attempt at changing his court positioning when serving by standing closer to the double's alley than he did to the middle of the court (no seriously, he was doing that). Improve his rally forehand signifcantly, and get him to be faaaaaaar more aggressive in rallies and look to end points quicker (the latter is the biggest change). Moya essentially tweaked Nadal's game to make it more suited for his older age and it did wonders. Have you guys noticed how far less often does Nadal get bossed around the baseline and have to revert to defense over the past 2.5 years?

 

[DarthFed]

Aside from being a friend, and not being an outsider, what do you think Moya has done to help Rafa’s game?

Two words: aggression and backhand.

 

[tented]

Improve the serve significantly and moving him away from the abomination that was his 2016 attempt at changing his court positioning when serving by standing closer to the double's alley than he did to the middle of the court (no seriously, he was doing that). Improve his rally forehand signifcantly, and get him to be faaaaaaar more aggressive in rallies and look to end points quicker (the latter is the biggest change). Moya essentially tweaked Nadal's game to make it more suited for his older age and it did wonders. Have you guys noticed how far less often does Nadal get bossed around the baseline and have to revert to defense over the past 2.5 years?

Two words: aggression and backhand.

OK, thanks for your input.

When I originally used the word “useless” (not the right word choice, I admit) I was thinking in terms of Moya’s frequent absences, and their impact on Rafa. I haven’t kept track of the exact numbers, but my guess is Moya has been there 65% of the time. Sure, guys on Rafa’s and Roger’s level don’t need coaching the way a junior does, but I still can’t help but think they would benefit from someone being around more than 2/3 of the time. If only as a steadying force to cheer them on in the box during matches. To talk to them before going on court. I guess it’s so jarringly different from the perpetual presence of Uncle Toni.

 

[Moxie]

OK, thanks for your input.

When I originally used the word “useless” I was thinking in terms of Moya’s frequent absences, and their impact on Rafa. I haven’t kept track of the exact numbers, but my guess is Moya has been there 65% of the time. Sure, guys on Rafa’s and Roger’s level don’t need coaching the way a junior does, but I still can’t help but think they would benefit from someone being around more than 2/3 of the time. If only as a steadying force to cheer them on in the box during matches. To talk to them before going on court. I guess it’s so jarringly different from the perpetual presence of Uncle Toni.

Even Uncle Toni took breaks every year. Usually it was Francis Roig to step in. The consistency in Rafa's box I think allows for the head coach to step away on occasion. I don't know if you noticed, but during RG, when Rafa had been having a "less than successful" clay season, Toni was around the grounds. He wasn't in the box, but he was there. I thought that was very interesting. And probably a bit of bringing in the big (stabilizing) gun when they needed him. I agree with those that say that Moyà has been a good influence. And I think the team is strong enough to allow for when Moyà takes a break.

 

[Moxie]

Two words: aggression and backhand.

And serve placement.

 

[tented]

And I think the team is strong enough to allow for when Moyà takes breaks.

Fixed!

 

[Moxie]

Fixed!

You still think it's too many breaks?

 

[tented]

You still think it's too many breaks?

My issue is mainly when the breaks occur, such as during a major. I know Toni didn’t go to IW, Cincinnati, and only occasionally Miami, etc., but he was absolutely there for majors. At least I can’t think of a single one when he wasn’t there. And I get that coaches can’t be there 24/7. But Wimbledon? Come on. Can’t Moya move his family vacation by a week or two? Ultimately I’m thinking like a fan, I realize, but it’s irritating during a tournament of this magnitude that Moya hasn’t been there since becoming his coach.

 

[imjimmy]

Aside from being a friend, and not being an outsider, what do you think Moya has done to help Rafa’s gaame?

I'll take a stab as well. I think the most significant change is the backhand and his court positioning. Moya has drilled into Nadal's head to take the ball early on the backhand. This was evident even starting from clay season in F.O 2017. In the past, you could attack Nadal's backhand and push him back. Now he does a much better job of not retreating, hitting on the rise, and therefore takes time away from his opponent. The DTL backhand is also flattened out more. It used to be more of a elevated spinny shot to set up his forehand previously.

I actually think his forehand has NOT changed significantly for the better. He has hit it better in the past. IMO with age his off-forehand (inside-out) is just not as good/accurate as it used to be. That said, under Moya Rafa does a good job of 1-2 punch. Meaning trying to dispatch a forehand winner after serving.

I'm also NOT a big fan of serving changes under Moya. Yes, they seemingly have changed the action to have it go faster through the air and tried to improve the 2nd serve. But Rafa has not been able to consistently serve well. His AO 2019 serve was nowhere to be seen in RG 2019 for ex. Statistically his AO 2019 did not look any more superior.

I think Fall 2010 was the best ever serve period for Nadal followed by 2013. Nadal's serving since then has never been as good. Let's take some numbers:

2010 UsOpen: Nadal was broken just 5 times in 7 matches. 3 of those were against Novak in the final.

2018 AO: Nadal was broken several times against Schwartzmann and Cillic. With the latter he lost his serve twice in a row.
2018 F.O: Nadal was broken by Bolleli, Marterer and 5 times against Schwartzmann. That's just in 3 matches in a tournament he won..
2018 UsOpen: Khachanov, Basilashvili, Thiem, Del Potro - all broke Nadal and feasted on his serve. Consequently he worked harder than he needed to and got injured.

I think Nadal's serve needs to get better and faster, if possible.. That would help him win matches much easier than he does and maybe he wouldn't get injured and skip entire seasons like he did in 2018 and 2019. He might also be a bigger factor then in non-clay slams.

 

[tented]

I've created a separate thread to discuss Moya as Nadal's coach.

 

[tented]

Here are a few videos showing Rafa practicing, plus an interview with Moya and Toni: