Monte Carlo 2017 - Semi Finals - POLL

Who do you like in each match?


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Moxie

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This Monte Carlo has seen a lot of upsets, but I thought a poll would still be fun. Of the 4, only Nadal has made the final of a MS 1000, (and won a fair few) but Ramos Viñolas is the only one not to have made a SF. And Pouille has been in one on clay (Rome, '15, lost to Murray.)
 

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The winner of Nadal Goffin probably will be the champion, most likely Nadal but Goffin has a shot. Funny how many bagels have happened on this tournament.
 

Moxie

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The winner of Nadal Goffin probably will be the champion, most likely Nadal but Goffin has a shot. Funny how many bagels have happened on this tournament.
Agreed about bagels, as that's especially unlikely on clay. I also agree about the winner in the bottom half taking the cup. I'll give Goffin a shot, too, as he played great against Novak today, and he has belief. It would be fairly disastrous for Nadal, though, if he doesn't take this one, which has become a sitter for him. He's not one to let an opportunity like this go by.
 

britbox

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I've gone with Nadal and Ramos emerging to face off in the final. I like Goffin's chances of pulling off the shock more than Ramos-Vinolas though, so I see this as Nadal's toughest match going forward.
 

Moxie

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I think Goffin will be a valiant opponent. He should be tired, but inspired by his victory over Novak. And I also think Pouille will get through on the other side. Pouille has beaten Rafa before, it's worth remembering.
 

isabelle

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I wonder if this time Manacor's bull'll catch the opportunity to win his first title of the season ???
 

Moxie

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Unforced error by the chair umpire on a game that Goffin should have won, which led Rafa to eventually break back instead. Poor on the ump.
 

Moxie

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Goffin has really lost his way since that bad call, and Rafa has played with much more authority. It was unfortunate for Goffin, but he's at fault now for not regrouping.
 

Moxie

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Unfortunate the way that match went. I think Rafa would have won it, but Goffin was dominating the first set, and it looked like it could so have gone 3.
 

mrzz

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One thing is for sure: if it was the other way around, it would only have pumped up Nadal even more.

It is hard to tell what would have happened in a case where one of the guys simply melts. But Nadal has nothing to do with that, and did his job.
 
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Moxie

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Coffin doesn't seem to me the kind of guy to melt down. He seems more level-headed than that. I had a thought this morning, given that I thought he was the most quality opponent my guy would face of the other 3 left, and I wondered if he'd spent a lot of mental/emotional energy getting to the SF already, especially v. Djokovic, but also Thiem. He may not have had a lot left in the emotional gas tank to recover from such a disappointment. That said, it was only 3-1 in the 1st, and he had time to get back into the match. If I were his coach, I'd tell him off about that, after a small amount of time to lick his wounds.
 

britbox

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Coffin doesn't seem to me the kind of guy to melt down. He seems more level-headed than that. I had a thought this morning, given that I thought he was the most quality opponent my guy would face of the other 3 left, and I wondered if he'd spent a lot of mental/emotional energy getting to the SF already, especially v. Djokovic, but also Thiem. He may not have had a lot left in the emotional gas tank to recover from such a disappointment. That said, it was only 3-1 in the 1st, and he had time to get back into the match. If I were his coach, I'd tell him off about that, after a small amount of time to lick his wounds.

Agreed, Goffin is usually a pretty cool operator... I don't believe one call can be blamed for putting Goffin in the coffin.

Headline on Reuters... "UPDATE 1-Tennis-Nadal reaches Monte Carlo final after controversial umpire call" as if it was the primary reason for David's defeat. :nono:
 

Moxie

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Agreed, Goffin is usually a pretty cool operator... I don't believe one call can be blamed for putting Goffin in the coffin.

Headline on Reuters... "UPDATE 1-Tennis-Nadal reaches Monte Carlo final after controversial umpire call" as if it was the primary reason for David's defeat. :nono:

It's unfortunate that Goffin's name auto-corrects to "coffin." :( A match rarely hinges on one bad call, however dismal and impactful, as in this case, on the one game. The momentum really shifted after that game, but you get a reset in the next set, and there were two sets left. Also, on Tennis Channel, Mary Carillo (who I generally like) was very upset, and thought that Rafa should have conceded the point, and after the match maintained that he should have apologized to David. That's both ridiculous and unfair to Nadal. He was prepared to accept the out call, but Mourier overturned it. He was far away from where the ball landed. It would have been odd to go against the chair, from where he stood in relation to the ball.

They still speak about clay not being within the margin of error for the electronic system, but does anyone else think it's time to go to Hawkeye on clay, too? In this particular match, it would have awarded the game to Goffin, which he rightfully won, and it would have left everyone's psyche intact going forward to play out the match as best they were able.
 

mrzz

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I am not sure this is reason enough to adopt Hawkeye. This is a technical decision, that should be based on technical aspects. The umpire screwed up big time today, sure. But how many mistakes like this happen in one year? The guys responsible for Hawkeye now the accuracy of the system on clay, so they know -- or can make at least a very good estimate -- of how many times Hawkeye itself would make incorrect calls in one year. Those are the two numbers you must compare, and not act based over one single -- even if very unfortunate - incident.
 

Moxie

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I don't tend to be alarmist or sensational based on one incident. I've always rather liked that they can check the marks on clay. The chubby little ump jumping out of the chair and making obscure hand gestures, etc. However, hasn't the technology changed in the 10+ years so that it might work on clay? Also, there is a margin of error, even on hard courts. Don't you ever think, when you see that it's just a sliver in or out on the replay, that it could be within that margin of error and be wrong even on hards or grass? But everyone accepts it and moves on. (Well, except for Roger, who has been known to doubt it. :lol6: ) Hawkeye works because the players accept what it shows them. Also, it speeds things up, in part because it eliminates arguing. Isn't that one of the things the game is trying to do? I've always been happy to keep it old school on clay, but I'm beginning to change my mind.
 

mrzz

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All your points are quite fair, but if what I read is right, the inaccuracy of Hawkeye on clay is bigger than on other surfaces. And, different from other surfaces, on clay you have the mark, which has almost zero inaccuracy (once you look at the right one).

A very cheaper alternative would be to wipe (I don´t know the correct verb in english, but you´ll know what I mean) the court every two games, instead of only between sets.
 

Moxie

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I think they say "drag" the courts in tennis, but you could say wipe. That might take some time. I don't understand why the properties of clay make it more difficult for Hawkeye to be as accurate, but not grass, because it must have some erratic, natural properties, too. (That's just a rhetorical question, really.)
 

mrzz

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Thanks, Moxie (for the "drag"). But I am sure you can do it in less than one minute, Formula 1 teams change the four wheels of a car in less than 2 seconds -- anyway, just thinking out loud.

About Hawkeye and grass, I guess there is a combination of factors. As you say, the fact that the surface is not smooth is a factor, and, again as you say, on grass it shall a problem too. I am pretty sure the accuracy on grass is smaller than on hards.

But clay has two additional problems. The dust, which goes up after the ball touches the ground, and surely blurs the image. The physical condition which defines the instant of contact is the inversion of the vertical speed orientation -- and surely the raising dust makes this a little harder. Also, the color of the court. In the end, all is translated to pixels, and optically orange is composed by yellow and red. In other words blue and yellow have a stark contrast, orange and yellow don´t. (see, the solution is blue clay. I keep saying but no one listens!!!).

[Edit] Of course I would not resist and try to answer your rhetorical question.
 

Moxie

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I hadn't thought about the clay dust, which is a good point, and the color similarity point is excellent! Well done. I liked the blue clay for the way it looked, and for ease of viewing on TV, but I hadn't thought about how it would make things easier for Hawkeye, too. What about making the balls blue, instead of the court, as another option? I remember the players saying the blue clay was slippery.