Level of play

[Mastoor]

I read last week that in one of his interviews Rafa mentioned that in several their matches he felt that Nole was unbeatable, while he never felt that Federer was unbeatable when he played against him. That implies that Rafa's impression is that the best of Nole is better than the best of Fedrerer.

Just couple of days later, I read one of Nadal's old archenemies, Soderling saying frankly that the best of Nole is better than the best of Federer.

To me, this along with some Federer's interviews from couple of years ago, was a confirmation of my impression that when Nole plays his best it is on level above everyone else.

Do you know of any other examples of tennis aces comparing levels of play of their rivals?

 

[Federberg]

I read last week that in one of his interviews Rafa mentioned that in several their matches he felt that Nole was unbeatable, while he never felt that Federer was unbeatable when he played against him. That implies that Rafa's impression is that the best of Nole is better than the best of Fedrerer.

Just couple of days later, I read one of Nadal's old archenemies, Soderling saying frankly that the best of Nole is better than the best of Federer.

To me, this along with some Federer's interviews from couple of years ago, was a confirmation of my impression that when Nole plays his best it is on level above everyone else.

Do you know of any other examples of tennis aces comparing levels of play of their rivals?

Lol! I’ve been waiting for a Novak fan to bring those articles up. First of all Soderling said that he always felt he could do something against Novak and Rafa, but always felt he didn’t stand a chance against Roger. He then said something about his feeling that Novak at his best looked unbeatable. Rafa’s comment speaks to the match up issue. Of course he’s going to fear Novak’s game more than Rogers, he’s always had more problems against him. Soderling’s comment in many ways is more nuanced but clearly recency bias. It’s some time ago now, but when Mr Federer was in his pomp no one expected him to lose at all. I point that out because this is the phenomenon we’re seeing about Novak, albeit not as extreme. There is an obvious inter-temporal mis match that’s so obvious I had to roll my eyes when I heard the comment. In summary.....”whatever!”

 

[Mastoor]

Well, I always anticipated that a Federer fan will attempt to relativise what the two said because they didn't say Federer's best level was better than Novak's but the other way around. Do you have an example of someone relevant saying Federer's level is better than the other two's? Murray, Wawrinka, Delpo? My money is on Ljubicic.

 

[Federberg]

Lol! And I always knew a Novak fan would be so insecure about their guys place In the scheme of things they would dredge the inter web to find space filler comments to inject Novak into the discussion. It’s so trivial and predictable I find myself struggling to even bother

 

[El Dude]

@Mastoor, can you point to a time or even a match when you thought you saw Roger's and Novak's best levels at the same time?

 

[Moxie]

I read last week that in one of his interviews Rafa mentioned that in several their matches he felt that Nole was unbeatable, while he never felt that Federer was unbeatable when he played against him. That implies that Rafa's impression is that the best of Nole is better than the best of Fedrerer.

Just couple of days later, I read one of Nadal's old archenemies, Soderling saying frankly that the best of Nole is better than the best of Federer.

To me, this along with some Federer's interviews from couple of years ago, was a confirmation of my impression that when Nole plays his best it is on level above everyone else.

Do you know of any other examples of tennis aces comparing levels of play of their rivals?

Great to have you back, @Mastoor. We've been missing a good Novak fan in the mix. But you were mis-reading some of those articles, as we've described on other threads. I translated Nadal's comments, and it's very much about match-up. He was politic about Fed, given the h2h, and did say that Djokovic was complicated for him. That's just true. He never said that Nole was unbeatable, or that Roger wasn't. What Soderling said was that he always came away from playing Rafa and Nole feeling OK about his game, but that he felt he had no solution for Roger. The headline was that he thought peak Novak would beat peak Roger, and he said that, but it's an opinion. What he actually said was that Roger was the most complicated of the 3 for him to play. It didn't make the headline, but it's important. As to players comparing themselves to rivals? The examples must be myriad.

 

[Front242]

Mastoor, you should seek out comments from Roddick and Davydenko to get some proper perspective.

 

[mrzz]

I read on one source an explicit Soderling quote saying peak Djokovic would win more than peak Federer in a series of matches. He was very clear. Nadal, as @Moxie said, was really more about the match up. Given Djokovic's peak level, we have to accept that some people - clever, reasonably unbiased people, will believe his peak is the highest. I would guess you will find "experts" pointing in all directions.

I, personally, believe Federer's peak is higher. As Broken likes to point out, the forehand around 2004 and 2005 was something else. He would fire winners from virtually everywhere.

 

[Federberg]

^this..

Add that to the fact that old man Roger is still Novak’s toughest out, the whole thing starts to fall apart.

 

[Moxie]

I read on one source an explicit Soderling quote saying peak Djokovic would win more than peak Federer in a series of matches. He was very clear. Nadal, as @Moxie said, was really more about the match up. Given Djokovic's peak level, we have to accept that some people - clever, reasonably unbiased people, will believe his peak is the highest. I would guess you will find "experts" pointing in all directions.

I, personally, believe Federer's peak is higher. As Broken likes to point out, the forehand around 2004 and 2005 was something else. He would fire winners from virtually everywhere.

I agree that peak Roger is probably better than peak Novak, especially given how many years he's hung with him. But, even with the 3, it's hard to say. Rafa and Roger mostly schooled Novak, earlier on. Rafa mostly has had Roger's number, but Novak has had Rafa's post-2011, mostly. Then Novak had both, but when they were less-strong...and so it goes. They've all had parts of their careers when they were untouchable.

 

[Mastoor]

Great to have you back, @Mastoor. We've been missing a good Novak fan in the mix. But you were mis-reading some of those articles, as we've described on other threads. I translated Nadal's comments, and it's very much about match-up. He was politic about Fed, given the h2h, and did say that Djokovic was complicated for him. That's just true. He never said that Nole was unbeatable, or that Roger wasn't. What Soderling said was that he always came away from playing Rafa and Nole feeling OK about his game, but that he felt he had no solution for Roger. The headline was that he thought peak Novak would beat peak Roger, and he said that, but it's an opinion. What he actually said was that Roger was the most complicated of the 3 for him to play. It didn't make the headline, but it's important. As to players comparing themselves to rivals? The examples must be myriad.

I read translation in Serbian, so could be that they exaggerated a little when they translated from Spanish.

Last week I also read that Toni said that in recent years we had the best ever on clay Rafa, the best ever on grass Federer and the best ever on hard court Nole playing together. Did they translated well that to Serbian?

 

[Moxie]

I read translation in Serbian, so could be that they exaggerated a little when they translated from Spanish.

Last week I also read that Toni said that in recent years we had the best ever on clay Rafa, the best ever on grass Federer and the best ever on hard court Nole playing together. Did they translated well that to Serbian?

You'd have to tell me what you're translating from, but it's not an unreasonable assessment, is it?

 

[Mastoor]

I agree that peak Roger is probably better than peak Novak, especially given how many years he's hung with him. But, even with the 3, it's hard to say. Rafa and Roger mostly schooled Novak, earlier on. Rafa mostly has had Roger's number, but Novak has had Rafa's post-2011, mostly. Then Novak had both, but when they were less-strong...and so it goes. They've all had parts of their careers when they were untouchable.

I would remind you that 1. everyone and their uncle expected Federer to win the Wimbledon finals some other matches they played in 2015 and 2016 and Federer lost 2. soon after Nole's injury, Federer resumed winning slams

 

[Mastoor]

You'd have to tell me what you're translating from, but it's not an unreasonable assessment, is it?

I assumed you read the same interview in either Spanish or English. i read it in Serbian

 

[Moxie]

I would remind you that 1. everyone and their uncle expected Federer to win the Wimbledon finals some other matches they played in 2015 and 2016 and Federer lost 2. soon after Nole's injury, Federer resumed winning slams

And your point is?

I assumed you read the same interview in either Spanish or English. i read it in Serbian

The last post on this thread was 19 Dec, so you'll have to remind me which article you're looking at. It's nice to have you back, but the discussion has moved on. It would be helpful if you'd catch us up on your thinking. Do you think that Novak is going to be fit for the AO? Any inside intel on his elbow/fitness, or opinions on the new team?

 

[Mastoor]

And your point is?


The last post on this thread was 19 Dec, so you'll have to remind me which article you're looking at. It's nice to have you back, but the discussion has moved on. It would be helpful if you'd catch us up on your thinking. Do you think that Novak is going to be fit for the AO? Any inside intel on his elbow/fitness, or opinions on the new team?

the point is that immediately before the matches everyone thought Federer was in his best form and once he lost they were saying that he wasn't. Therefore he was, they just downplayed it once they saw he lost.

I don't have any info about Nole other than what I assume you all read. i was surprised that he was first expecting himself to dominate again in 2018 then couple of days later he cancelled the two tournaments due to injury and now he wants to play again. I am sure he won't be back for next several months if that was the same injury renewed.

 

[Moxie]

the point is that immediately before the matches everyone thought Federer was in his best form and once he lost they were saying that he wasn't. Therefore he was, they just downplayed it once they saw he lost.

I don't have any info about Nole other than what I assume you all read. i was surprised that he was first expecting himself to dominate again in 2018 then couple of days later he cancelled the two tournaments due to injury and now he wants to play again. I am sure he won't be back for next several months if that was the same injury renewed.

I'll agree with you...if his elbow is still hurting, I'm not sure how it's going to stop hurting for the AO. As to going over old Wimbledon predictions, I'll leave it to the Fedfans. They always think he should win Wimbledon. Personally, I didn't expect him to win in 2014, but in the 2015 final, after Roger's performance v. Murray, I did think Roger would win.

 

[DarthFed]

Most Fed fans didn't pick him to win those Wimbledon finals. I thought he'd win both. Full credit to Nole in 2014, Roger turned back the clock in a couple ways that match, served brilliantly, and still lost. 2015 was the opposite. Probably the 2nd worst slam final of Roger's career. He was God awful in every way.

 

[Mastoor]

How they didn't? In 2015 semifinal he pulverised Murray for whom everyone thought was in smashing form then, so everyone was enthusiastic about the final with Nole.

 

[Moxie]

How they didn't? In 2015 semifinal he pulverised Murray for whom everyone thought was in smashing form then, so everyone was enthusiastic about the final with Nole.

Darth says "Fed fans" didn't pick him. I'm not sure about odds. I didn't pick Roger in 2014, but as I said, Roger was surely in fine form going into the 2015 final. There was nothing wrong with him in either final other than he got beat. You're looking for validation that Novak was better in those finals. There is no question.