Is it Fair?

[Murat Baslamisli]

...for all these players that are pulling out in the first round , to show up here, knowing full well they are hurt, like Magro and Haas who have been carrying the same injuries for a while now, and collect the first round losers money ? And denying another player the opportunity to play ? Can anything be done about this?

Even though these guys have every right to show up, it seems a bit unfair to me.

 

[Denis]

...for all these players that are pulling out in the first round , to show up here, knowing full well they are hurt, like Magro and Haas who have been carrying the same injuries for a while now, and collect the first round losers money ? And denying another player the opportunity to play ? Can anything be done about this?

Even though these guys have every right to show up, it seems a bit unfair to me.

I agree. Don't know what you could do about it though. Not handing out prize money for retirements has its shortcomings too, like people just going through the motions for three sets, and disadvantaging actually injured players.

Do you think these two actually showed up only for the money? They have plenty already right?

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Money is actually not the main issue for me, even though it is an issue, but it is more denying someone the chance to participate. For a lot of players that are ranked just outside the cutoff ranking point, it would be a dream to just play at a slam.

 

[Denis]

Money is actually not the main issue for me, even though it is an issue, but it is more denying someone the chance to participate. For a lot of players that are ranked just outside the cutoff ranking point, it would be a dream to just play at a slam.

Yeah, I agree, but from the perspective of Haas and Magro that is what you are insinuating right?

I mean, the only way to do something about it, is to make sure these players don't participate if they are not fit to compete. But how to do that?

 

[tented]

...for all these players that are pulling out in the first round , to show up here, knowing full well they are hurt, like Magro and Haas who have been carrying the same injuries for a while now, and collect the first round losers money ? And denying another player the opportunity to play ? Can anything be done about this?

Even though these guys have every right to show up, it seems a bit unfair to me.

A few years ago, McEnroe was talking about this, and said players who withdraw in the first round should not get paid. Pretty harsh.

Haas was doing well, until he hurt his shoulder mid-match. He was up 5-0 when he retired. He could have gone on to win had things gone a little differently.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Denisovic, it is definitely a part of it. They get what, $25.000 or so? They most definitely do not need that money but for someone ranked 127 or something, that money is a huge amount and a great motivator to go on. We all know how hard it is to make good money in tennis if you are out of the top hundred. It is a constant struggle.

 

[Riotbeard]

...for all these players that are pulling out in the first round , to show up here, knowing full well they are hurt, like Magro and Haas who have been carrying the same injuries for a while now, and collect the first round losers money ? And denying another player the opportunity to play ? Can anything be done about this?

Even though these guys have every right to show up, it seems a bit unfair to me.

Not sure what there motivations are for coming. Don't like it, but at least for Haas, first round loser probably barely covers the cost of his getting whole team across the ocean.

 

[Federberg]

I'm not sure whether fairness has anything to do with it to be honest. Sounds harsh, but that's life. If those guys just beyond the cut off were good enough they would be there. Perhaps next time they should work a bit harder. The fact is these guys work hard to get into the draw, if they qualify they should get paid. It's expensive being a journey man on the ATP tour... I'll admit it sucks a bit if it's a super wealthy guy who's doing it. But generally speaking if a player is that desperate to get the cash from a tame first round exit they probably NEED the money

 

[tented]

...for all these players that are pulling out in the first round , to show up here, knowing full well they are hurt, like Magro and Haas who have been carrying the same injuries for a while now, and collect the first round losers money ? And denying another player the opportunity to play ? Can anything be done about this?

Even though these guys have every right to show up, it seems a bit unfair to me.

Not sure what there motivations are for coming. Don't like it, but at least for Haas, first round loser probably barely covers the cost of his getting whole team across the ocean.

Which speaks to my point above: he thought he had a legitimate chance of winning matches, so he showed up. He was up 5-0 before he had to retire. I don't think he should not have been allowed to participate.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

...for all these players that are pulling out in the first round , to show up here, knowing full well they are hurt, like Magro and Haas who have been carrying the same injuries for a while now, and collect the first round losers money ? And denying another player the opportunity to play ? Can anything be done about this?

Even though these guys have every right to show up, it seems a bit unfair to me.

A few years ago, McEnroe was talking about this, and said players who withdraw in the first round should not get paid. Pretty harsh.

Haas was doing well, until he hurt his shoulder mid-match. He was up 5-0 when he retired. He could have gone on to win had things gone a little differently.

But he retired because of the same injury in Rome too, no. ? Also AO as well. If it is serious enough to retire in Rome, he must have taken some time off to rehab it. That means he was not able to train hard. And he shows up to play at RG and it goes again. It is not unexpected that this was going to happen.

Not a whole lot can be done I guess, and I don't agree with not paying players if they pull out of the first round because of an injury that just happened during the match.

However if someone has withdrawn from a previous tournament because of an injury and shows up for the next one, maybe a little chat can be had between the organizers and the player. Maybe the player can be asked if he is ready to compete at this high level and be told that if he pulls out for the same injury, no money? I don't know.

 

[tented]

...for all these players that are pulling out in the first round , to show up here, knowing full well they are hurt, like Magro and Haas who have been carrying the same injuries for a while now, and collect the first round losers money ? And denying another player the opportunity to play ? Can anything be done about this?

Even though these guys have every right to show up, it seems a bit unfair to me.

A few years ago, McEnroe was talking about this, and said players who withdraw in the first round should not get paid. Pretty harsh.

Haas was doing well, until he hurt his shoulder mid-match. He was up 5-0 when he retired. He could have gone on to win had things gone a little differently.

But he retired because of the same injury in Rome too, no. ? Also AO as well. If it is serious enough to retire in Rome, he must have taken some time off to rehab it. That means he was not able to train hard. And he shows up to play at RG and it goes again. It is not unexpected that this was going to happen.

Not a whole lot can be done I guess, and I don't agree with not paying players if they pull out of the first round because of an injury that just happened during the match.

However if someone has withdrawn from a previous tournament because of an injury and shows up for the next one, maybe a little chat can be had between the organizers and the player. Maybe the player can be asked if he is ready to compete at this high level and be told that if he pulls out for the same injury, no money? I don't know.

That's a good idea. Kind of like no repeated MTOs for the same injury.

I get your frustration, especially in light of other players not getting a chance to play because injured players are preventing it, but ... well, yeah, it's complicated.

Do you know if doctors are involved in this process at any point? As in, did Haas need to get a doctor's approval before entering RG? If not, should that be an extra step to prevent these first round retirements, especially for existing problems?

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

^No clue as to the involvement of a tournament doctor. But at the end of the day, it is the player that decides if he will play or not , no?

Like you say, it is complicated, and frustrating a bit.

 

[tented]

^No clue as to the involvement of a tournament doctor. But at the end of the day, it is the player that decides if he will play or not , no?

He makes that decision if no one else makes it for him, i.e., there is no doctor to say, "No, Tommy, you can't play. Your shoulder is still too injured."

 

[Front242]

Pretty gutted for Haas this year and this may be it for him finally

 

[Front242]

Retiring while winning sucks a lot more than doing so while losing 'cos you can't play.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

...for all these players that are pulling out in the first round , to show up here, knowing full well they are hurt, like Magro and Haas who have been carrying the same injuries for a while now, and collect the first round losers money ? And denying another player the opportunity to play ? Can anything be done about this?

Even though these guys have every right to show up, it seems a bit unfair to me.

young players going places like 240ish rank borna coric age 17 could have had a place in qualifying rounds if the injury players didn't play..I mentioned before that haas might not play seeing as he just withdrew from rome with a similar injury.

another thing I don't like is majors giving most of the wildcards to home players.

 

[Front242]

^ Agree about the home players thing. You can see the reason obviously but in reality it should be given to the most likely player to put it to good use and not just 'cos they're the nationality of the host slam/tournament.

 

[Front242]

Good to see the clowns at tennis.com are getting better with their headlines. Not. Check out this muppetry of the highest order which would have you believe he retired from tennis today rather than just a match. "Haas, 36, retires at Roland Garros with shoulder injury." Idiots.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2014/05/haas-36-out-with-injury-in-1st-set-at-french/51572/#.U4TmlSg9C2U

 

[Federberg]

...for all these players that are pulling out in the first round , to show up here, knowing full well they are hurt, like Magro and Haas who have been carrying the same injuries for a while now, and collect the first round losers money ? And denying another player the opportunity to play ? Can anything be done about this?

Even though these guys have every right to show up, it seems a bit unfair to me.

young players going places like 240ish rank borna coric age 17 could have had a place in qualifying rounds if the injury players didn't play..I mentioned before that haas might not play seeing as he just withdrew from rome with a similar injury.

another thing I don't like is majors giving most of the wildcards to home players.

Yes exactly. There's a natural bias to british, french, australian and american players which strikes me as far more unfair

 

[Moxie]

...for all these players that are pulling out in the first round , to show up here, knowing full well they are hurt, like Magro and Haas who have been carrying the same injuries for a while now, and collect the first round losers money ? And denying another player the opportunity to play ? Can anything be done about this?

Even though these guys have every right to show up, it seems a bit unfair to me.

young players going places like 240ish rank borna coric age 17 could have had a place in qualifying rounds if the injury players didn't play..I mentioned before that haas might not play seeing as he just withdrew from rome with a similar injury.

another thing I don't like is majors giving most of the wildcards to home players.

Yes exactly. There's a natural bias to british, french, australian and american players which strikes me as far more unfair

Note that those nationalities you mention are of countries that host Majors. I'm not sure about the others, but the US and France trade wild cards. Two, I think. Is that fair? I was going to complain about Robbie Ginepri getting one of the US ones…but maybe the complaint is that countries can reciprocate WCs, and a low-ranked has been gets to take a slot instead of a more deserving qualifier, or the WC be given to a more worthy player from a country with no Slam to barter.

As far as Haas and Almagro, sounds like Haas re-injured his shoulder while playing today, and Almagro has said that he was pushing himself a bit, because it was RG, but he didn't think his foot was too bad. I think he even sat out Rome to rest it. In any case, I don't think anyone needs to see them as cynical and just taking the money. I think, like all athletes, they're used to playing with a certain amount of pain, and they live in hope that they'll still find ways to win. In any case, I'd rather see #18 and #22 ranked players give it a go than someone like Robby Ginepri (#279) come in and get blown away by Rafa in 90+ minutes.