Higher level of tennis: 2008 final or 2014 final?

[calitennis127]

I think that in terms of drama and anticipation, the 2008 final was better, but in terms of shots and game, the 2014 final was clearly better.

Thoughts?

 

[DarthFed]

Tough to say, I think through 4 sets it was arguably better but this had a pretty routine and anticlimatic 5th in comparison. I think Nole overall was playing higher level than Rafa did in that match. I also don't think Roger had some of the mental letdowns he experienced in 2008, especially the first 2 sets. I think Roger played a bit better in 2008, particularly the last 3 sets. As much as people talk about how he was badly outplayed and should've lost 2008 in 3, had he been tough he could have won in 4.

 

[calitennis127]

Tough to say, I think through 4 sets it was arguably better but this had a pretty routine and anticlimatic 5th in comparison. I think Nole overall was playing higher level than Rafa did in that match. I also don't think Roger had some of the mental letdowns he experienced in 2008, especially the first 2 sets. I think Roger played a bit better in 2008, as much as people talk about how he was badly outplayed and should've lost in 3, had he been tough he could have won in 4.

Agreed Darth, but don't you think that if you're looking at the matches impartially, the quality of tennis execution and shotmaking was better in today's final?

The winner-to-unforced error ratio was outstanding on both sides (68:27 for Djokovic and 75:29 for Federer). Point after point, this match offered great shots. It was a shotmaking war.

 

[crystalfire]

i cant really say but tennis wise this was more clean like you mentioned less errors. points were actually earned rather than mistakes from other players. i dont remember if that was the case back in 08

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Roger could not BUY a passing shot today, his net game, percentage wise was way below his capacity, and he had less forehand winners than Nole , ON GRASS.
What Roger showed today was fight, guts, and a huge serve. He was not vintage like 2008, but he still fought like his life depended on it. The 4th. set win was all guts.

 

[calitennis127]

Roger could not BUY a passing shot today, his net game, percentage wise was way below his capacity, and he had less forehand winners than Nole , ON GRASS.

Djokovic has a pretty darn good forehand, and Fed didn't even get a chance to use his own on many points because he was hitting so many aces.

The 4th. set win was all guts.

And excellent movement and quickness to set up his shots and take control of rallies.

Plus, Federer wasn't the one who called the trainer twice.....

 

[calitennis127]

i cant really say but tennis wise this was more clean like you mentioned less errors. points were actually earned rather than mistakes from other players. i dont remember if that was the case back in 08

That was pretty much my point. The points were so clean in today's match, on a regular basis, basically from start to finish. It was exceptional tennis.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Either way, I am very proud of what Roger has done these two weeks. With a little bit better forehand, he could have won the whole thing. But Nole kept it together well. Credit to where it belongs.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

There was certainly more drama in the 2008 final. However, I agree with Cali that
in terms of pure quality of tennis shots, today's match was better.

The fifth set of today was definitely anti-climactic (as DF pointed out). I am not
saying this just because I don't like the end result.

I think Novak played the first set better even though he lost it. Similarly, I think
Roger played the fourth set better even though he lost it. I guess they both "cancel
out" so to speak and the better player won in the end.

I was amazed by Fed's ability to hang in there Djokovic and win long rally
points. I have not looked up the stat, but I believe Fed might have even won
more longer rally (those which lasts 9 or more shots) points than Novak. This is
particularly encouraging and I have no reason to doubt that Fed will have the
ability to be in the mix for some more time, despite today's loss.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Either way, I am very proud of what Roger has done these two weeks. With a little bit better forehand, he could have won the whole thing. But Nole kept it together well. Credit to where it belongs.

The commentators were telling today that the new bigger racquet has helped Fed's
backhand, but has somewhat hurt his forehand. I don't know whether that is the reason,
but definitely we miss the TMF forehand. Novak having more FH winners than Fed is
kind of unacceptable.

 

[Front242]

Yeah a lot of commentators are saying that about the new racquet affecting his forehand but seeing as so many people hammer his backhand it's a fair trade off imo. One thing I find last few years is tactically I dunno why but Fed volleys the wrong way so many times and often today hit the ball right back to Novak instead of to the open court. He does it against everyone these days. If he sat down and watched the points he'd see he did it loads today. I know it's hard under pressure but a 17 time slam champion should fix that. It wasn't even an attempt at wrong footing but just plain dumb, hitting right back to him like "here, your ball, I don't want it" :nono

 

[shawnbm]

This was, by ratio of unforced errors to winners, just a bit higher. I just don't recall that many winners in that match with Nadal. Each was different and the drama was different, but this was high quality throughout. I think it was in the third set as they approached the tiebreak they had three UFEs between them in that one set. I don't know, but this seemed pretty doggone high to me. Kudos to both men, but especially Nole. Seeing Fed come back from championship point down in the fourth set must have been tough.

 

[Front242]

I believe Federer had 55 or 56 UFEs in that 2008 match or something like that.

 

[Riotbeard]

I honestly can't say. This is one I am looking forward to rewatching, as I was on such pins and needles this morning, I think lost sight of the actual quality of tennis.

 

[nehmeth]

I honestly can't say. This is one I am looking forward to rewatching, as I was on such pins and needles this morning, I think lost sight of the actual quality of tennis.

:snigger I skipped the whole thing except for checking in now and then, otherwise I would have been dead after the first set. Will see it with my father on the DVR later. Looking forward to watching the Nolecoaster without living it this time.

 

[Riotbeard]

I honestly can't say. This is one I am looking forward to rewatching, as I was on such pins and needles this morning, I think lost sight of the actual quality of tennis.

:snigger I skipped the whole thing except for checking in now and then, otherwise I would have been dead after the first set. Will see it with my father on the DVR later. Looking forward to watching the Nolecoaster without living it this time.

Outside of the 4th he was amazingly solid. Sets one and three were obviously decided by a handful of points.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I am not buying the racquet negatively affecting the forehand thing. It has been 5-6 years since Roger's move to the forehand side has been declining. No racquet is going to fix that. He never had a problem moving to the backhand side , plus he has the option of slice there, whereas a forehand slice is a last resort. The top players have been exploiting that for years...

 

[shawnbm]

I am not buying the racquet negatively affecting the forehand thing. It has been 5-6 years since Roger's move to the forehand side has been declining. No racquet is going to fix that. He never had a problem moving to the backhand side , plus he has the option of slice there, whereas a forehand slice is a last resort. The top players have been exploiting that for years...

Me neither, Murat. He lost a hard fought match and to a deserving champion. Roger was battling and was gamely competing, but Novak was right there. His forehand was not negatively affected by his new racquet. He has not said as much. He's in great shape and still has plenty of fight in him. He, Novak and the rest have plenty of big matches left in them.

 

[shawnbm]

Roger was +37 and Nadal +33 in the 2008 final. Both Nole and Roger exceeded those statistics in this final. On that criteria alone, this one may deserve to at least be viewed as a classic like that one with Rafa.

 

[Haelfix]

I thought Roger played slightly better today than he did against Nadal in 2008, but then that's b/c Novaks game doesn't bother him as much matchup wise.

Yea I agree with other posters, the loss of the old tmf forehand was probably what made the difference.

Still, just like Nadal in 2008, I thought Novak's level was just better. It wasn't a clutch thing, or a fitness thing, or bad luck. Straight up, Novak had the better level and deserved the win. If anything, it was Roger who clutched and gutted himself into making it close. This should have been over in 4.

Going forward, we can see the problem with the netgame strategy. Its great against lesser opponents, but against great defenders who know its coming, it just doesn't work on anything less than glass. Roger needs the old inside out forehand back. It's the primary reason why he has stopped winning majors.