Greatest American Presidents...

[Federberg]

I thought this would create some controversy and discussions so I couldn't resist! Let the arguments begin!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-ever-donald-trump-bill-clinton-a7588706.html

Historians have voted Barack Obama the 12th best President in US history.

C-Span surveyed nearly 100 presidential historians who ranked the former leader highly in several categories.

They said Mr Obama performed well on areas including economic management, and also in "pursuing justice for all", in which he ranked third among all presidents.

But he placed only 39th for his relationship with Congress and 24th for international relations.

Joe Biden and Barack Obama through the years

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• [URL='http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/historians-obama-12th-best-president-ever-donald-trump-bill-clinton-a7588706.html#'] 15 show all

His predecessor George W Bush ranked 33rd overall, up three places since 2009, while Bill Clinton came in at 15th. Abraham Lincoln took the top spot, followed by George Washington and Franklin Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower rounded out the top five in the third survey of its kind.

Mr Obama ranked 12th in the "setting an agenda category", 15th for crisis leadership and seventh for moral authority.

Historian Richard Norton Smith, one of the academic advisers for the survey, said: "The golden age of the American presidency, according to this survey, is 1933 to 1969.

"Five presidents from this era each rank in the top 10 which tells you something about the criteria that historians tend to use.

"It reinforces Franklin Roosevelt's claim to be not only the first modern president but the man who, in reinventing the office, also established the criteria by which we judge our leaders."

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Dr Edna Green Medford, of Howard University, said: "Although 12th is a respectable overall ranking, one would have thought that former President Obama’s favourable rating when he left office would have translated into a higher ranking in this presidential survey.

"But, of course, historians prefer to view the past from a distance, and only time will reveal his legacy."

If the timing of C-Span's surveys remains constant — it has released the results of polls in 2000, 2009 and 2017 — US politics buffs can look forward to learning historians' hot takes on Donald Trump's presidency in 2020 or 2021.[/URL]

 

[britbox]

What's your ranking @Federberg? i.e. Top 5?

 

[Federberg]

Nothing too controversial I'm guessing. A bias towards transformative Presidents...

1, Lincoln
2, Washington
3, FDR
4, Jefferson
5, LBJ

I know it didn't end well for LBJ, but the fact that a Southern Democrat was the one who pushed through the Civil Rights Amendment is powerful to me.

What's yours?

 

[britbox]

My knowledge of US presidents is pretty minimal mate... I've never delved too much into American history whereas I love British and European history + the great wars. Roosevelt was a smart president for me... but what I know about Jefferson I could write on the back of a postage stamp.

 

[shawnbm]

1. Abraham Lincoln--preserved the Union and pushed forward with the emancipation proclamation for the slaves

2. George Washington--guided our young nation through war and its aftermath. Made far reaching decisions on the presidency and oversaw the setting up of various branches of the new government.

3. FDR--another transformative president who guided nation through the Great Depression and from isolationist country to engaged nation through Second World War. Also created massive infrastructure projects for the struggling country.

4. Ronald Reagan-- as transformative in his way as FDR was in his. He guided the country out of the greatest recession the nation had seen since the great depression, joined forces with Maggie thatcher and Saint Pope John Paul II to affirmatively counter soviet aggression around the world, which ultimately led to Gorbachev being appointed and then the fall of the soviet communist model.

5. Dwight David Eisenhower--guided nation through post-world war land mines and developed our country's interstate highway system. Helped to foster growth and the rise of suburbia in America and oversaw greatest economic boon of the twentieth century for USA. Also warned nation of dangers of the military-industrial complex with great foresight. It was a peaceful time.

This things just popped into the head quickly and I just spit them out to Siri

 

[teddytennisfan]

whatever ELSE his flaws may have been -- i generally think that John F Kennedy was quite genuine in his desire to find ways for better relations in the world and within america. i think the greatest single thing he COULD have , or tried, succeeded in - but was ended by his death -- was his attempt -- like Lincoln -- to NATIONALIZE the US treasury and central bank and remove it from the rothschild clan's paws..

 

[Horsa]

My American history isn't that good. I'm more up on the native Americans, mountain men, homesteaders, cattle ranchers & cowboys than American presidents but I'd say Abraham Lincoln & Woodrow Wilson have to come up for the top 2. Abraham Lincoln because he abolished slavery & Woodrow Wilson because he kept America out of World War I for as long as possible.

 

[Federberg]

My American history isn't that good. I'm more up on the native Americans, mountain men, homesteaders, cattle ranchers & cowboys than American presidents but I'd say Abraham Lincoln & Woodrow Wilson have to come up for the top 2. Abraham Lincoln because he abolished slavery & Woodrow Wilson because he kept America out of World War I for as long as possible.

Did you know Woodrow Wilson was an unabashed supporter of the Ku Klux Klan? I can’t have him anywhere on my list for that reason, but I dare say he’ll still end up somewhere above Trump!

 

[Horsa]

Did you know Woodrow Wilson was an unabashed supporter of the Ku Klux Klan? I can’t have him anywhere on my list for that reason, but I dare say he’ll still end up somewhere above Trump!

I didn't. I only knew about him keeping America out of World War I for as long as possible.

 

[shawnbm]

Kennedy is glamorized because he was a Democrat, he was young and had a long cry wife and kids, and that image is bootstrapped to the idea that they helped usher in the “transformative “ Sixties—which is an era you are not allowed to attack or criticize. So, he is great, notwithstanding his fiasco el la bahía de los cochinos or the missile build up or his steady escalation of the US military presence and influence in Vietnam under his watch. There are other things, but he gets a free pass on much because of his tragic end. The propaganda as to Camelot in Washington is powerful, as he was my favorite president as a child.

 

[monfed]

JFK is probably the greatest american president ever with Eisenhower the worst.

 

[britbox]

JFK is probably the greatest american president ever with Eisenhower the worst.

Why was Eisenhower the worst?

 

[shawnbm]

Ike was far from the worst; he was actually one of the best in my view. Being elected after the firing of General MacArthur in the midst of the end of the first major military conflict of the Cold War (Korea) was not being handed an easy task. I think he has been historically underappreciated, even though he was the first to send military advisors to Vietnam (understandable in light of Soviet, Chinese and North Korean aggression in the area).

 

[Federberg]

^It's quite beyond me how Ike could be considered one of the worst. This is clearly someone with a complete lack of knowledge of US history. Ike was a President that presided over a period following World War 2 with the global economic reconstruction that ensued. The Cold War, and other more overt conflicts, and yet US society appeared largely becalmed. If you actually think about it, it's an extraordinary achievement. You have to be really good for people to think the times were boring.

There are a whole host of post Civil War Presidents who were absolute stinkers.

And as for JFK being in any serious top 5, that's a bit of a joke. Most of the great things of the 60s were actually done by LBJ

 

[monfed]

Why was Eisenhower the worst?

Well I must say that I'm no expert on US history and don't claim to be, but didn't he order Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

 

[Federberg]

Well I must say that I'm no expert on US history and don't claim to be, but didn't he order Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

oh dear lord... That was Truman

 

[shawnbm]

Yes, Harry Truman made that monumental decision to drop the atomic bomb on both of those cities in Japan. Who knows what would have happened if the carnage had been permitted to continue to force the unconditional surrender of the Japanese Empire? Some calculations had over a million lives lost which was not too hard to ignore in light of the prevalence of Shintoism and the kamikaze pilots of the Japanese forces.

 

[monfed]

oh dear lord... That was Truman

Oh sorry my bad, I apologise!.

Truman it is then!

 

[monfed]

Yes, Harry Truman made that monumental decision to drop the atomic bomb on both of those cities in Japan. Who knows what would have happened if the carnage had been permitted to continue to force the unconditional surrender of the Japanese Empire? Some calculations had over a million lives lost which was not too hard to ignore in light of the prevalence of Shintoism and the kamikaze pilots of the Japanese forces.

While I see your point but think about the radiation which has lasted for years. I would've been ok if the atomic bomb wiped all the troops but what about the radiation that destroyed future generations and crippled japanese sociey and their mentality?

 

[Horsa]

I'm very sorry to interrupt your conversation & I know the atomic bomb hitting Hiroshima killed a lot of innocent people but America was in a World War with Japan & Japan was a brutal enemy & all both sides thought about was ending the war & I guess he thought that was the best way of doing it. I'm not saying it was the best thing to do but we all act differently under pressure. (Off-topic, the Japanese were even brutal to the Q.A.I.M.N.S. *Queen Alexander's Imperial Nursing Service" & their Dutch & Australian counterparts & all they were doing were nursing wounded soldiers & they even did their best to save Japanese. I know because I'm reading a book about the Q.A.I.M.N.S. or British army nurses now. It's very distressing).