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Federberg

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Lol! I guess he's speaking in relative terms
 

Federberg

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depends on how you look at it. Serena's serve in the woman's game is a far more potent weapon than anything on the mens tour imho. The only thing that comes close is probably Novak's return
 

brokenshoelace

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depends on how you look at it. Serena's serve in the woman's game is a far more potent weapon than anything on the mens tour imho. The only thing that comes close is probably Novak's return

I really disagree. Women deal with Serena's serve a little easier than men deal with Ivo's serve and it's pretty obvious IMO. Of course, Serena's overall game compliments her serve in a way that makes her virtually unplayable at times, but if we're talking about the serve alone as an isolated shot, then Karlovic's serve does way more damage on its own, even in relative terms.
 

Federberg

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^perhaps as a standalone weapon I would concede that BS. But with a Serena you have the psychological damage she imposes on her rivals because they know that they have to hold their serve and probably won't be able to break her. Why is this worse than with Ivo? Because with Ivo you know that while you absolutely have to focus on holding your serve, it really is up to you. His return game is so appalling it's almost certainly the case that if you're broken it's because you had a really lax serving game. On the other hand with Serena the pressure is even more appalling because her returns are ferocious as well. But as I said, perhaps it's the fairer to just say it's the combination of superb serve and awesome returning that makes Serena so tough to handle. By the way... do you think Ivo's serve is better than Isner's? Surely Isner's 2nd serve at least is better?
 

britbox

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I really disagree. Women deal with Serena's serve a little easier than men deal with Ivo's serve and it's pretty obvious IMO. Of course, Serena's overall game compliments her serve in a way that makes her virtually unplayable at times, but if we're talking about the serve alone as an isolated shot, then Karlovic's serve does way more damage on its own, even in relative terms.

He was talking about it in isolated terms... agreed, no comparison IMO.