Best Player Ever

[Alien]

This is not about the GOAT (it is Federer as he has the titles and weeks as #1). This is about what player have you seen play the best tennis ever.

I consider it was Djokovic 2011, when I watched him owning Nadal on the clay it was amazing. Those rallies which ended with a cross corut backhand of Nole destroying one of the best forehands in the history of the game... it was incredible.

Of course others will claim Federer 2004-7 is highest level. I dont think so, I believe it tennis evolution and I simply think Federer was overpassed. Sure I love his tennis, his style and all. But I have seen better.

 

 

[britbox]

Absolute Levels v Relative Levels.

Yeah, I get it.

Will have to think about the answer... Are you thinking over a period of time? Because sometimes you'll get a guy redlining, playing an almost flawless match at an incredible level.  I though Wawrinka was pretty stunning at the FO, for instance.

 

[Alien]

Yes, I think we could be precise but not sure just a match. Again, my top would be Djokovic in some months 2011... although he has reached a high level this year as well, I think Federer and Nadal specially are a bit off.

It is about pure level of tennis. Which is the highest you have ever seen? IMO it wil lbe between Roger and Nole, I dont think Sampras was up there - Agassi would agree with me and he should know as he played all of the three.

Britbox, you got it by rephrasing it. Relative Level equals GOAT for me, and that would be Roger in my list, not that subjective as we have records to consider. Absolute level, no matter how many Slams you got, probably way more subjective...

 

 

[britbox]

Difficult if you don't set a definitive window.  I thought Federer played a fantastic match against Djokovic at the FO 2011.  If I'm going to set a highest level ever seen, it's still say Federer at his very best, but I'm always guilty of favouring the attacking player.

Wawrinka was sublime in the FO Final 2015... but over the course of 3 months minimum, Nole's 2011 campaign stands out... and as much as hate to say it... Nadal is up there.  Even putting his clay court triumphs to one side... Nadal was awesome in the US Open 2010.  I remember thinking after that match... Nole won't beat Nadal again when the chips are down anytime soon.

 

[Alien]

Agreed. Maybe a Quarter ? If we just set a month or a tournament it might be too short and then we have to include Cilic, or Nalbandian in MS1000 2007, or any player just having an absolutely great week.

 

 

[britbox]

If it's a quarter, then yeah, Djokovic 2011 was probably the best in absolute levels. Nadal may also have a claim if you narrowed it down to 3 months.

 

[shawnbm]

If you are talking highest level of a great player, then it would have to be an attacking player who hits lots of aces and service winners and literally blows an opponent off of the court.  Sampras when on fire is up there, as is John McEnroe in his time.  He was sublime.  Federer when firing and in his "fun house" is also at the top.  They take games from opponents before they can get into the groove of play--and the risks are higher for a player who plays in that fashion--they live or die by the winner.  So, that will be your defauly highest level because it also carries the highest risk.  When on, they beat the rest because of the shots they possess that others don't.  The reason why Nole at his best can be put in this league is because of his unbelievable return of service.  He can actually attack at a level I have not seen in terms of service, not even from Agassi or Connors.  Also, he has immensely improved his service, which has been surprising in light of what it once was--that has been remarkable.

 

[mikecase]

If you are talking highest level of a great player, then it would have to be an attacking player who hits lots of aces and service winners and literally blows an opponent off of the court. Sampras when on fire is up there, as is John McEnroe in his time. He was sublime. Federer when firing and in his “fun house” is also at the top. They take games from opponents before they can get into the groove of play–and the risks are higher for a player who plays in that fashion–they live or die by the winner. So, that will be your defauly highest level because it also carries the highest risk. When on, they beat the rest because of the shots they possess that others don’t. The reason why Nole at his best can be put in this league is because of his unbelievable return of service. He can actually attack at a level I have not seen in terms of service, not even from Agassi or Connors. Also, he has immensely improved his service, which has been surprising in light of what it once was–that has been remarkable.

Did you used to post on tennis.com? You name is fmiliar.

 

[shawnbm]

Yes, Mikecase, many moons ago.

 

[atttomole]

This is not about the GOAT (it is Federer as he has the titles and weeks as #1). This is about what player have you seen play the best tennis ever. I consider it was Djokovic 2011, when I watched him owning Nadal on the clay it was amazing. Those rallies which ended with a cross corut backhand of Nole destroying one of the best forehands in the history of the game… it was incredible. Of course others will claim Federer 2004-7 is highest level. I dont think so, I believe it tennis evolution and I simply think Federer was overpassed. Sure I love his tennis, his style and all. But I have seen better.

Regardless of criterion used, for me it is Federer.  Actually I am not so much into the GOAT thing, but I can say that Federer is the best player I have ever seen playing tennis.

 

[brokenshoelace]

2011 Djokovic and 2006 Federer for me. I'd still go with Roger by a small margin because he's produced the highest level of tennis I've ever seen. But, if we can narrow it down to a particular tournament, and I'm not being biased here, but I've never seen anything like Nadal's 2008 FO. To through an entire major dropping just 41 games is staggering, especially considering he played Djokovic and Federer.

 

[Carol]

But if we are talking about good matches this guy at 16 years old was incredible good, watch the different kind of good shots

 

[Moxie]

2011 Djokovic and 2006 Federer for me. I'd still go with Roger by a small margin because he's produced the highest level of tennis I've ever seen. But, if we can narrow it down to a particular tournament, and I'm not being biased here, but I've never seen anything like Nadal's 2008 FO. To through an entire major dropping just 41 games is staggering, especially considering he played Djokovic and Federer.

I think as BB says, if you go with about a 3 month period, you have to say Nadal's whole clay season in 2008. He was untouchable. (I think Borg, though, holds the record for fewest games dropped at the FO, though he didn't, as you point out, play equals to Federer and Djokovic.)
In fairness, I will say that Fed and Djoker have gone for some long stretches at a sustained high level. And I'd tip to Roger, too.

 

[mrzz]

This is not about the GOAT (it is Federer as he has the titles and weeks as #1). This is about what player have you seen play the best tennis ever.

I consider it was Djokovic 2011, when I watched him owning Nadal on the clay it was amazing. Those rallies which ended with a cross corut backhand of Nole destroying one of the best forehands in the history of the game... it was incredible.

Of course others will claim Federer 2004-7 is highest level. I dont think so, I believe it tennis evolution and I simply think Federer was overpassed. Sure I love his tennis, his style and all. But I have seen better.

Alien, welcome (first time I´ve seen you...)

Good arguments, but precisely who has beaten Djokovic on RG that year?... yes, the best ever.

 

[Carol]

Alien, welcome (first time I´ve seen you...)

Good arguments, but precisely who has beaten Djokovic on RG that year?... yes, the best ever.

And who has beaten "the best ever" that year? the best ever on clay!

 

[Moxie]

Yes, welcome, Alien, but as you see, it will always be a circular argument.

 

[mrzz]

Yes, welcome, Alien, but as you see, it will always be a circular argument.

Circular? Spherical!

In, what, ten years?, when boards like this will be filled with fans of the future slam winners, which will be -- let me put it the more elegant and educated way I can -- a pathetic bunch of sorry incompetent losers -- we will be politely condescending with those players, here and there making some subtle comment about the big three. It will be boring...

So lets spin around as much as we can now! Federer is the best ever, lálálálá! (I cannot believe there is no emoticon simply showing its tongue... what a lousy board this is).

 

[Billie]

Like this one @mrzz

 

[Mastoor]

There is no question who the best ever is - the player narrowly misses year end number 1 in the year he didn't practice.

 

[El Dude]

Marin Cilic at the 2014 US Open was unstoppable. In the second week he straight-setted Berdych, Federer, and Nishikori in the QF, SF, and F. He was about as dominant as I've seen over a few matches. But I bring him up not to be contrarian but to point out that any reasonably good player can play light's out for a few matches. Cilic earned his Slam trophy, but is really a second tier player who played really, really well for a week.

If cali were around he'd probably point to David Nalbandian at the end of 2007. Isn't he the only player in tennis history to beat Rafa, Novak, and Roger all in the same tournament?

But if we take the idea that tennis evolves, then the best players of the last decade or so are the best ever, in terms of absolute level. And that would be Novak in 2011/15/early16, Rafa in 2008/10/13, and Roger in 2004-07. On the other hand, I prefer relative peak because a player can only ever play in the context they played in. In that case, from what I've heard you have to look at Lew Hoad--whom I'm guessing no one saw play--as the player capable of the greatest level in tennis history.

We could also split it up by court type. The highest peak on clay is Rafa, on outdoor and slow hard courts is Novak, on grass, indoor, and fast hard courts is Roger.